What Is Judaism? - Rabbi David Wolpe

Alex O'Connor sits down with Rabbi David Wolpe to unpack the elusive question of what Judaism actually is. Wolpe argues that Judaism resists Western categories like religion, ethnicity, or nation, and instead suggests thinking of it as a 'religious family' - something you're born into, can join, but rarely truly leave. The conversation explores conversion, matrilineal descent, and why Jewish identity feels inescapable even for non-religious Jews.

The discussion moves into difficult territory with the Hebrew Bible's violent conquest narratives, including commands to annihilate the Canaanites and Amalekites. Wolpe explains his non-literalist approach, arguing that these passages reflect ancient human understandings projected onto God rather than God's literal commands, while still holding that the text contains profound moral and spiritual truths alongside troubling ones.

The pair also discuss the Book of Job and the problem of suffering, Jewish views on the afterlife and its gradual development from the Hebrew Bible to the Talmud, and why Judaism never accepted Jesus as the Messiah. The episode closes with personal reflections from Wolpe's many debates with Christopher Hitchens, including surprising details about Hitchens's charm, sincerity, and views on friendship and Israel.

Key takeaways

• Judaism doesn't fit neatly into Western categories like 'religion' or 'ethnicity' - Wolpe prefers describing it as a 'religious family' you're born into or can join.
• Jewish identity traditionally passes through the mother (matrilineal descent), a practice with likely practical origins, though the Reform movement also accepts patrilineal descent.
• Wolpe takes a non-literalist approach to the Hebrew Bible, viewing violent conquest commands as human projections onto God rather than divine commands, while still valuing the text's moral teachings.
• The concept of the 'chosen people' is about mission and responsibility rather than racial or ethnic superiority, and is open to converts.
• Judaism's view of the afterlife is underdeveloped in the Hebrew Bible but becomes much more prominent in the Talmud, reflecting a shift from collective to individual fate.
• Wolpe rejects Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, arguing Christianity faces a bigger theological burden explaining why so few of Jesus's contemporaries recognized him as divine.
• Wolpe shares warm personal recollections of debating Christopher Hitchens, describing him as charming, sometimes rhetorically evasive, but sincere and great company offstage.

Highlights

• 0:52 — Judaism described as a 'religious family' rather than a race or religion
• 21:36 — Wrestling with Old Testament conquest commands and chosen people theology
• 29:40 — Wolpe explains why he doesn't believe God literally spoke the violent biblical commands
• 39:48 — Discussing the Book of Job and unjust suffering
• 54:59 — Why Jesus posed little theological challenge to Judaism
• 1:06:02 — Debating circumcision and the Hitchens genital mutilation exchange
• 1:09:01 — Reflections on debating and befriending Christopher Hitchens

00:00:00 What Is Judaism Really
00:02:09 Orthodox Conservative and Reform Differences
00:06:36 Matrilineal Descent and Conversion Rules
00:14:53 Chosen People and Jewish Kinship
00:21:36 Old Testament Conquest and Violence
00:29:40 Reading the Bible as Human Authored
00:39:48 The Book of Job and Suffering
00:48:03 Jewish Views on the Afterlife
00:54:59 Jesus and Jewish Theology
01:01:58 Circumcision and Its Criticisms
01:07:34 Debating Christopher Hitchens
01:14:11 Friendship Israel and Final Thoughts

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and<00:03:46.200> yet<00:03:46.560> their<00:03:46.800> Judaism<00:03:47.720> seems<00:03:47.959> to<00:03:48.040> be<00:03:48.120> something<00:03:48.360> they<00:03:48.480> can't<00:03:48.720> escape,<00:03:49.239> which<00:03:50.000> it<00:03:50.640> is<00:03:50.880> the<00:03:51.080> sense<00:03:51.320> in<00:03:51.400> which<00:03:51.560> it<00:03:51.680> is<00:03:51.800> treated<00:03:52.120> like<00:03:52.320> an<00:03:52.560> an<00:03:52.680> ethnicity.

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So,<00:03:53.360> there's<00:03:53.560> a<00:03:54.000> there's<00:03:54.160> an<00:03:54.320> obvious<00:03:54.840> sense<00:03:55.120> in<00:03:55.200> which<00:03:55.400> you<00:03:55.520> can't<00:03:55.920> stop<00:03:56.240> being<00:03:56.480> a<00:03:56.560> Jew<00:03:57.160> when<00:03:57.320> you<00:03:57.720> sort<00:03:57.880> of<00:03:57.960> treat<00:03:58.240> Judaism<00:03:58.680> as<00:03:58.800> an<00:03:58.880> ethnicity,<00:03:59.480> but<00:03:59.960> I<00:04:00.000> mean,<00:04:00.120> do<00:04:00.240> you

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think<00:04:00.571> that's<00:04:00.783> appropriate?<00:04:00.994> I<00:04:01.205> mean,<00:04:01.416> like<00:04:01.628> like<00:04:01.839> how<00:04:02.050> do<00:04:02.261> you<00:04:02.473> how<00:04:02.684> do<00:04:02.895> you<00:04:03.106> how<00:04:03.318> do<00:04:03.529> you<00:04:03.740> how<00:04:03.951> do<00:04:04.163> you<00:04:04.374> how<00:04:04.585> do<00:04:04.796> you<00:04:05.008> how<00:04:05.219> do<00:04:05.430> you<00:04:05.641> sort<00:04:05.853> of<00:04:06.064> approach<00:04:06.275> that<00:04:06.486> by<00:04:06.698> what<00:04:06.909> Judaism<00:04:07.120> is.

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That's<00:04:08.080> why<00:04:08.200> I<00:04:08.280> said<00:04:08.680> you're<00:04:08.800> trying<00:04:09.080> to<00:04:09.160> put<00:04:09.320> it<00:04:09.440> into<00:04:09.640> Western<00:04:09.920> categories,<00:04:10.400> but<00:04:10.520> it<00:04:10.600> doesn't<00:04:10.840> fit.

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It's<00:04:11.840> not<00:04:12.080> an<00:04:12.200> ethnicity.<00:04:13.200> It's<00:04:13.440> also<00:04:13.959> not<00:04:14.160> a<00:04:14.240> religion.

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It's<00:04:15.280> something<00:04:15.880> that<00:04:16.079> predates<00:04:16.920> the<00:04:17.320> the<00:04:17.519> concepts<00:04:18.000> of<00:04:18.120> ethnicity<00:04:18.640> or<00:04:18.760> religion.

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It's<00:04:20.079> and<00:04:20.280> that's<00:04:20.519> why<00:04:20.640> I<00:04:20.720> use<00:04:20.920> the<00:04:21.040> word<00:04:21.239> family.

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It's<00:04:21.920> the<00:04:22.040> best<00:04:22.360> analogy<00:04:23.400> that<00:04:23.560> I<00:04:23.640> can<00:04:23.840> use.

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And<00:04:24.560> the<00:04:24.680> answer<00:04:25.000> is<00:04:25.400> even<00:04:25.640> if<00:04:25.760> you<00:04:25.840> leave<00:04:26.040> your<00:04:26.200> family<00:04:26.640> and<00:04:26.720> you<00:04:26.800> don't<00:04:26.960> see<00:04:27.080> them<00:04:27.200> for<00:04:27.360> 30<00:04:27.680> years<00:04:28.000> and<00:04:28.080> then<00:04:28.200> one<00:04:28.320> day<00:04:28.480> you<00:04:28.600> show<00:04:28.800> up<00:04:28.919> at<00:04:29.000> the<00:04:29.080> door,<00:04:29.840> you're<00:04:30.000> still<00:04:30.200> family.

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And<00:04:31.680> and<00:04:31.880> so,<00:04:32.400> I<00:04:32.520> think<00:04:32.760> that<00:04:32.880> that<00:04:33.400> analogy<00:04:33.840> works<00:04:34.440> fairly<00:04:35.200> well.

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It's<00:04:35.919> not<00:04:36.440> It<00:04:36.560> doesn't<00:04:37.520> overlay<00:04:37.919> perfectly,<00:04:38.520> but<00:04:38.720> it'll<00:04:39.000> it<00:04:39.200> will<00:04:39.360> serve.

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But,<00:04:40.080> would<00:04:40.200> you<00:04:40.320> say<00:04:40.520> for<00:04:40.640> example,<00:04:41.120> I<00:04:41.160> mean,<00:04:41.280> I've<00:04:41.400> spent<00:04:41.600> a<00:04:41.640> lot<00:04:41.760> of<00:04:41.800> time<00:04:42.000> talking<00:04:42.240> to<00:04:42.360> Catholics.

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And<00:04:43.040> because<00:04:43.280> I<00:04:43.360> was<00:04:43.520> baptized<00:04:44.080> and<00:04:44.160> confirmed<00:04:44.640> in<00:04:44.919> into<00:04:45.160> Catholicism,<00:04:45.919> they<00:04:46.080> say<00:04:46.520> that<00:04:46.880> at<00:04:47.480> best<00:04:48.120> or<00:04:48.280> at<00:04:48.360> worst,<00:04:48.760> I<00:04:48.800> suppose,<00:04:49.640> all<00:04:49.840> I<00:04:50.000> can<00:04:50.080> ever<00:04:50.280> really<00:04:50.480> be<00:04:50.680> is<00:04:50.800> like

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a<00:04:51.000> bad<00:04:51.280> Catholic.<00:04:52.000> Right.<00:04:52.360> Right.<00:04:52.480> It<00:04:52.600> it<00:04:52.680> doesn't<00:04:52.919> sort<00:04:53.040> of<00:04:53.080> matter<00:04:53.280> what<00:04:53.400> I<00:04:53.480> do.

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I've<00:04:53.800> been<00:04:54.000> confirmed.<00:04:54.440> Like<00:04:54.560> that's<00:04:54.919> that's<00:04:55.120> it.<00:04:55.160> And<00:04:55.240> I've<00:04:55.360> always<00:04:55.560> felt<00:04:55.760> quite<00:04:56.000> uncomfortable<00:04:56.720> by<00:04:56.880> that<00:04:57.080> fact<00:04:57.360> because<00:04:58.400> I<00:04:58.480> don't<00:04:58.640> think<00:04:58.840> I'm<00:04:58.960> a<00:04:59.000> Catholic.

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I<00:05:00.000> I<00:05:00.040> don't<00:05:00.240> recognize<00:05:00.760> that<00:05:01.040> that<00:05:01.680> sort<00:05:01.800> of<00:05:02.080> sense<00:05:02.400> of<00:05:03.040> ownership<00:05:03.440> of<00:05:03.520> me<00:05:03.640> in<00:05:03.720> a<00:05:03.760> group,<00:05:04.320> you<00:05:04.400> know?

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And<00:05:05.120> I<00:05:05.160> can<00:05:05.280> imagine<00:05:05.560> that<00:05:05.680> for<00:05:05.800> a<00:05:05.840> lot<00:05:06.000> of<00:05:06.120> non-religious<00:05:06.880> Jews,<00:05:07.480> they<00:05:07.600> say,<00:05:07.760> "Look,<00:05:07.960> I<00:05:08.200> don't<00:05:08.520> identify<00:05:08.840> with<00:05:08.960> the<00:05:09.000> religious<00:05:09.320> tradition.

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I<00:05:10.120> don't<00:05:10.360> believe<00:05:10.600> in<00:05:10.720> God.<00:05:11.400> I<00:05:11.480> don't<00:05:11.760> go<00:05:11.880> to<00:05:11.960> the<00:05:12.040> synagogue."

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None<00:05:12.720> of<00:05:12.800> that<00:05:12.960> kind<00:05:13.160> of<00:05:13.240> stuff.<00:05:14.040> Um<00:05:14.960> I<00:05:15.160> don't<00:05:15.320> know.

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They<00:05:15.480> they<00:05:15.520> they<00:05:15.600> they<00:05:15.840> might<00:05:16.080> say,<00:05:16.360> "Well,<00:05:16.520> I<00:05:16.680> don't<00:05:17.040> I<00:05:17.080> don't<00:05:17.280> want<00:05:17.480> to<00:05:17.560> be<00:05:18.160> considered<00:05:18.640> Jewish."

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It<00:05:19.280> isn't<00:05:19.919> really<00:05:20.040> possible<00:05:20.640> that<00:05:20.760> someone<00:05:21.040> could<00:05:21.200> say,<00:05:21.440> "I<00:05:21.520> don't<00:05:21.720> want<00:05:21.840> to<00:05:21.919> be<00:05:22.000> considered<00:05:22.480> Jewish."

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[Mhm].<00:05:23.840> Um<00:05:24.440> I<00:05:24.800> I<00:05:24.919> feel<00:05:25.240> as<00:05:25.400> though<00:05:26.240> uh<00:05:26.880> your<00:05:28.680> my<00:05:29.640> principles<00:05:30.360> about<00:05:30.720> how<00:05:31.200> I

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see<00:05:31.800> people<00:05:32.160> in<00:05:32.280> their<00:05:32.400> groups<00:05:32.720> and<00:05:33.080> other<00:05:33.360> people's<00:05:33.720> principles<00:05:34.160> about<00:05:34.360> how<00:05:34.480> they<00:05:34.600> see<00:05:34.760> themselves<00:05:35.200> don't<00:05:35.400> necessarily<00:05:37.000> coincide.

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And<00:05:38.400> in<00:05:38.640> the<00:05:38.720> Jewish<00:05:39.040> tradition,<00:05:39.880> you<00:05:40.040> are<00:05:40.240> Jewish<00:05:41.440> uh<00:05:41.760> if<00:05:41.919> you're<00:05:42.040> born<00:05:42.320> Jewish.

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And<00:05:43.360> even<00:05:43.680> though<00:05:44.400> you<00:05:44.760> might<00:05:45.080> wish<00:05:45.480> to<00:05:45.600> leave<00:05:45.800> that.

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Now,<00:05:46.200> the<00:05:46.320> rabbis<00:05:46.880> have<00:05:47.400> rabbis<00:05:48.360> meaning<00:05:48.600> the<00:05:48.680> rabbis<00:05:48.960> of<00:05:49.040> the<00:05:49.120> Talmud<00:05:50.080> confronting<00:05:50.720> this<00:05:51.640> forensic<00:05:52.120> difficulty,<00:05:53.040> they<00:05:53.200> decided<00:05:53.680> that<00:05:53.880> everybody's<00:05:54.560> spirit

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was<00:05:55.240> actually<00:05:55.640> present<00:05:56.040> at<00:05:56.160> Sinai.<00:05:57.080> So,<00:05:57.320> you<00:05:57.440> see<00:05:57.680> you<00:05:57.920> you<00:05:58.080> might<00:05:58.240> not<00:05:58.640> think<00:05:59.120> that<00:05:59.320> you<00:05:59.440> signed<00:05:59.840> on,<00:06:00.000> but<00:06:00.160> in<00:06:00.240> fact<00:06:00.480> you<00:06:00.560> did.

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But<00:06:01.520> practically<00:06:02.040> speaking,<00:06:02.560> I<00:06:02.640> think<00:06:02.840> this<00:06:03.000> is<00:06:03.160> a<00:06:03.640> also<00:06:04.000> a<00:06:04.080> historical<00:06:04.680> development<00:06:05.600> that<00:06:06.280> so<00:06:06.640> many<00:06:06.920> Jews<00:06:07.400> over<00:06:07.640> pressure<00:06:08.080> over<00:06:08.280> so<00:06:08.520> many<00:06:08.840> years<00:06:09.920> were

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either<00:06:10.960> pushed<00:06:11.440> out<00:06:11.880> or<00:06:12.600> enticed<00:06:13.240> out<00:06:13.880> or<00:06:14.040> pressured<00:06:14.520> out<00:06:15.120> that<00:06:15.560> the<00:06:15.680> Jewish<00:06:15.920> community<00:06:16.880> wanted<00:06:17.200> to<00:06:17.280> make<00:06:17.480> a<00:06:17.520> firm<00:06:17.760> statement<00:06:18.160> that<00:06:18.320> actually<00:06:18.720> you

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can't<00:06:19.240> leave.<00:06:19.480> You<00:06:19.560> might<00:06:19.880> think<00:06:20.160> you<00:06:20.280> can,<00:06:20.480> but<00:06:20.640> you<00:06:20.760> can't,<00:06:21.480> which<00:06:21.800> was<00:06:21.960> also<00:06:22.240> a<00:06:22.280> way<00:06:22.400> of<00:06:22.520> making<00:06:22.840> it<00:06:22.960> easy<00:06:23.200> to<00:06:23.280> come<00:06:23.440> back<00:06:23.680> 'cause<00:06:23.800> that<00:06:24.040> same<00:06:24.360> Jew<00:06:25.200> who<00:06:25.400> says<00:06:25.720> I<00:06:25.760> don't<00:06:25.919> want

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to<00:06:26.080> be<00:06:26.160> considered<00:06:26.600> a<00:06:26.680> Jew<00:06:26.880> if<00:06:27.080> in<00:06:27.200> a<00:06:27.280> year<00:06:27.600> they<00:06:27.760> decide<00:06:28.120> I<00:06:28.200> do<00:06:28.440> want<00:06:28.680> to,<00:06:29.080> they<00:06:29.200> can<00:06:29.360> walk<00:06:29.560> into<00:06:29.720> the<00:06:29.800> synagogue<00:06:30.240> and<00:06:30.360> everyone<00:06:30.680> will<00:06:30.840> accept<00:06:31.200> them.

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[Mhm].<00:06:33.200> Now,<00:06:33.680> you<00:06:34.040> mentioned<00:06:34.560> a<00:06:34.600> moment<00:06:34.840> ago<00:06:35.040> about<00:06:35.280> this<00:06:35.440> maternal<00:06:36.240> lineage.

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One<00:06:37.680> of<00:06:37.760> the<00:06:37.840> things<00:06:38.080> that<00:06:38.560> a<00:06:38.640> lot<00:06:38.800> of<00:06:38.880> people<00:06:39.080> do<00:06:39.240> know<00:06:39.400> about<00:06:39.680> Judaism<00:06:40.240> is<00:06:40.400> that<00:06:40.600> if<00:06:40.720> your<00:06:40.880> mother<00:06:41.200> is<00:06:41.360> Jewish,<00:06:41.960> then<00:06:42.560> you<00:06:42.720> are<00:06:42.840> Jewish,<00:06:43.400> but<00:06:43.560> it<00:06:43.760> doesn't<00:06:44.080> follow<00:06:44.280> that

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if<00:06:44.520> your<00:06:44.640> father<00:06:45.040> is<00:06:45.160> Jewish<00:06:45.560> that<00:06:46.160> you're<00:06:46.320> Jewish<00:06:46.640> too.

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And<00:06:47.000> and<00:06:47.120> you<00:06:47.200> implied<00:06:47.520> a<00:06:47.560> moment<00:06:47.800> ago<00:06:47.960> that<00:06:48.080> this<00:06:48.320> was<00:06:48.520> sort<00:06:48.760> of<00:06:48.880> a<00:06:49.000> practical<00:06:49.760> measure<00:06:50.080> because<00:06:50.360> you<00:06:50.480> always<00:06:50.800> know<00:06:50.960> who<00:06:51.120> the<00:06:51.200> mother<00:06:51.480> is,<00:06:51.640> you<00:06:51.720> don't<00:06:51.919> always<00:06:52.160> know<00:06:52.280> who

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the<00:06:52.520> father<00:06:52.880> is.<00:06:53.040> Is<00:06:53.360> that<00:06:53.520> the<00:06:53.640> origin<00:06:54.000> of<00:06:54.200> of<00:06:54.320> this?

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Um<00:06:55.400> it<00:06:55.680> well,<00:06:55.880> we<00:06:56.000> don't<00:06:56.240> know<00:06:56.440> the<00:06:56.560> origin<00:06:56.960> for<00:06:57.120> sure.

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I<00:06:57.880> mean,<00:06:58.120> in<00:06:58.320> the<00:06:58.400> Bible<00:06:58.919> it<00:06:59.040> seems<00:06:59.320> as<00:06:59.480> though<00:06:59.760> it's<00:06:59.960> more<00:07:00.160> patrilineal.

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It's<00:07:01.320> like<00:07:01.520> Jacob<00:07:02.120> is<00:07:02.560> right.<00:07:02.919> So,<00:07:03.840> um<00:07:04.520> and<00:07:04.680> I<00:07:04.720> think<00:07:04.880> that<00:07:05.000> that's<00:07:05.280> in<00:07:05.400> part<00:07:05.680> because<00:07:06.320> you<00:07:06.480> brought<00:07:06.960> women<00:07:07.360> into<00:07:07.840> the<00:07:08.720> into<00:07:09.000> the<00:07:09.120> fold,<00:07:09.680> so

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to<00:07:09.960> speak.<00:07:10.800> Um<00:07:11.400> but<00:07:12.480> but<00:07:12.640> it<00:07:12.760> was<00:07:12.960> probably<00:07:14.160> it<00:07:14.320> probably<00:07:14.800> at<00:07:15.000> least<00:07:15.200> had<00:07:15.360> some<00:07:15.720> origins<00:07:16.760> in<00:07:16.960> practicality<00:07:17.880> around

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the<00:07:18.280> time<00:07:18.520> of<00:07:18.640> Ezra<00:07:18.880> and<00:07:19.000> Nehemiah,<00:07:19.400> so<00:07:19.560> the<00:07:19.680> later<00:07:19.919> biblical<00:07:20.320> period<00:07:21.120> because<00:07:21.520> in<00:07:21.640> fact<00:07:22.480> when<00:07:22.800> there<00:07:23.000> were<00:07:23.720> when<00:07:23.919> there<00:07:24.040> was<00:07:24.280> intermarriage<00:07:24.960> and<00:07:25.080> conversion<00:07:25.640> and<00:07:25.760> all

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those<00:07:26.160> things<00:07:26.520> and<00:07:26.640> people<00:07:27.040> were<00:07:27.200> leaving<00:07:27.640> or<00:07:27.760> coming<00:07:28.360> and<00:07:28.520> you<00:07:28.600> wanted<00:07:28.960> to<00:07:29.040> know<00:07:29.200> if<00:07:29.360> a<00:07:29.400> child<00:07:29.800> was<00:07:29.919> Jewish<00:07:30.240> or<00:07:30.360> not,<00:07:31.080> that<00:07:31.280> was<00:07:31.440> the<00:07:31.520> way<00:07:31.640> to<00:07:31.760> know.

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It<00:07:32.760> just<00:07:33.080> I<00:07:33.280> mean,<00:07:33.440> it<00:07:33.520> seems<00:07:33.720> a<00:07:33.760> little<00:07:33.919> strange<00:07:34.400> to<00:07:34.480> me<00:07:34.560> and<00:07:34.680> I<00:07:34.800> I<00:07:34.840> I<00:07:35.000> you're<00:07:35.200> right<00:07:35.600> that<00:07:36.000> um<00:07:36.680> you<00:07:36.760> know,<00:07:36.960> concepts<00:07:37.560> like<00:07:38.480> religion,<00:07:39.000> concepts<00:07:39.480> like<00:07:39.760> ethnicity,<00:07:40.320> these

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are<00:07:41.240> modern<00:07:41.600> concepts,<00:07:42.200> but<00:07:42.320> I<00:07:42.360> guess<00:07:42.560> I'm<00:07:42.640> trying<00:07:42.840> to<00:07:42.960> get<00:07:43.040> this<00:07:43.160> straight<00:07:43.400> in<00:07:43.440> my<00:07:43.560> head<00:07:43.800> like<00:07:44.680> you<00:07:44.720> know<00:07:44.800> if<00:07:45.000> if<00:07:45.200> I<00:07:45.320> wanted<00:07:45.640> to<00:07:45.720> convert<00:07:46.040> to<00:07:46.160> Judaism<00:07:47.120> presumably<00:07:48.000> that's

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an<00:07:48.320> option<00:07:48.560> that's<00:07:48.760> open<00:07:48.960> to<00:07:49.080> me<00:07:49.200> I<00:07:49.240> mean<00:07:49.360> is<00:07:49.440> that<00:07:49.560> an<00:07:49.640> option<00:07:49.880> that's<00:07:50.000> open<00:07:50.160> to<00:07:50.240> me<00:07:50.360> in<00:07:50.480> all<00:07:51.560> Jewish<00:07:51.840> religious<00:07:52.120> traditions<00:07:52.520> or<00:07:52.640> are<00:07:52.680> there<00:07:52.920> traditions<00:07:53.360> that<00:07:53.480> say<00:07:53.920> in

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all<00:07:54.400> Jewish<00:07:54.680> religious<00:07:55.040> traditions<00:07:55.640> always.<00:07:56.040> it<00:07:56.160> doesn't<00:07:56.440> sort<00:07:56.560> of<00:07:56.640> matter<00:07:57.080> to<00:07:57.200> whom<00:07:57.360> I'm<00:07:57.480> born<00:07:58.000> that<00:07:58.160> doesn't<00:07:58.400> matter<00:07:58.520> at<00:07:58.600> all<00:07:58.760> I<00:07:58.800> can<00:07:58.920> become<00:07:59.240> a<00:07:59.280> Jew<00:07:59.440> and<00:07:59.560> and<00:07:59.680> what

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would<00:07:59.880> that<00:08:00.040> look<00:08:00.320> like<00:08:00.560> like<00:08:00.720> what<00:08:00.840> would<00:08:00.960> it<00:08:01.120> require<00:08:01.600> me<00:08:01.760> to<00:08:01.880> do<00:08:02.120> would<00:08:02.240> I<00:08:02.280> have<00:08:02.480> to<00:08:02.560> sort<00:08:02.760> of<00:08:02.840> make<00:08:03.120> a<00:08:03.600> confession<00:08:04.040> of<00:08:04.080> things<00:08:04.280> that<00:08:04.400> I<00:08:04.480> believe<00:08:05.000> would<00:08:05.120> I<00:08:05.200> have<00:08:05.360> to<00:08:06.040> sort

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of<00:08:06.520> just<00:08:06.800> just<00:08:07.080> rethink<00:08:07.320> my<00:08:07.440> relationship<00:08:07.920> with<00:08:08.040> people<00:08:08.400> what<00:08:08.520> would<00:08:08.640> it<00:08:08.760> what<00:08:08.880> would<00:08:08.960> it<00:08:09.040> mean?

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So<00:08:09.640> depending<00:08:10.120> on<00:08:10.280> how<00:08:10.480> you<00:08:10.680> converted<00:08:11.440> whether<00:08:11.640> you<00:08:11.720> converted<00:08:12.120> reform<00:08:12.440> conservative<00:08:12.880> orthodox<00:08:13.720> the<00:08:13.960> essentials<00:08:14.600> would<00:08:14.760> be<00:08:15.520> that<00:08:15.760> you<00:08:15.880> would<00:08:16.080> have<00:08:16.320> to<00:08:16.480> have<00:08:17.400> um

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some<00:08:18.680> course<00:08:19.000> of<00:08:19.120> study<00:08:20.800> um<00:08:22.080> some<00:08:22.919> commitment<00:08:23.640> to<00:08:23.760> live<00:08:24.000> Jewishly<00:08:24.640> and<00:08:24.800> then<00:08:25.080> how<00:08:26.280> specific

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how<00:08:27.440> observant<00:08:28.120> how<00:08:28.480> ritualistic<00:08:29.120> that<00:08:29.280> was<00:08:29.520> depended<00:08:29.960> on<00:08:30.919> with<00:08:31.080> whom<00:08:31.280> you<00:08:31.360> converted<00:08:32.400> and<00:08:33.120> if<00:08:33.360> you're<00:08:33.479> a<00:08:33.560> man<00:08:34.440> then<00:08:34.680> traditionally<00:08:35.440> you

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would<00:08:35.680> have<00:08:35.800> to<00:08:35.880> be<00:08:35.960> circumcised.<00:08:37.640> Which<00:08:38.520> from<00:08:38.760> the<00:08:38.840> time<00:08:39.080> of<00:08:39.200> Paul<00:08:39.960> has<00:08:40.120> proved<00:08:40.440> something<00:08:40.800> of<00:08:40.880> an<00:08:40.960> obstacle<00:08:41.960> strangely<00:08:42.479> enough<00:08:42.919> but<00:08:43.039> Yeah<00:08:43.440> I<00:08:43.520> can<00:08:43.800> I

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can<00:08:44.120> I<00:08:44.200> can<00:08:44.360> see<00:08:44.520> that<00:08:45.080> um<00:08:46.000> and<00:08:46.400> and<00:08:46.520> then<00:08:47.480> if<00:08:47.680> I<00:08:47.880> if<00:08:48.080> I<00:08:48.120> did<00:08:48.320> convert<00:08:48.600> to<00:08:48.680> Judaism<00:08:50.080> I<00:08:50.240> and<00:08:50.360> I'm<00:08:50.480> now<00:08:50.640> a<00:08:50.720> Jew<00:08:52.080> will

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there<00:08:52.600> be<00:08:53.000> traditions<00:08:53.640> that<00:08:53.839> say<00:08:54.800> well<00:08:54.920> because<00:08:55.200> you've<00:08:55.320> converted<00:08:55.760> to<00:08:56.120> to<00:08:56.400> Judaism<00:08:57.320> now<00:08:57.560> you<00:08:57.680> can't<00:08:58.040> leave<00:08:58.560> or<00:08:58.720> is<00:08:58.800> it<00:08:58.920> just<00:08:59.120> the<00:08:59.200> people<00:08:59.440> who<00:08:59.520> are<00:08:59.560> sort<00:08:59.720> of<00:09:00.040> born<00:09:00.200> into

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Judaism?<00:09:01.000> you're<00:09:01.120> Jewish<00:09:01.480> you're<00:09:01.920> fully<00:09:02.280> Jewish.

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And<00:09:03.200> that<00:09:03.360> would<00:09:03.480> include<00:09:03.920> for<00:09:04.000> example<00:09:04.720> you<00:09:04.800> know<00:09:05.040> if<00:09:05.320> I<00:09:05.560> had<00:09:05.720> a<00:09:05.800> wife<00:09:06.440> who<00:09:06.680> converted<00:09:07.360> to<00:09:07.560> Judaism<00:09:08.520> and<00:09:08.640> then<00:09:08.880> had<00:09:09.000> a<00:09:09.080> child<00:09:10.160> the<00:09:10.240> child<00:09:10.560> is<00:09:10.640> Jewish.

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automatically<00:09:11.520> Jewish<00:09:11.960> but<00:09:12.240> you<00:09:12.320> know<00:09:12.440> suppose<00:09:12.960> that<00:09:13.800> I<00:09:13.880> don't<00:09:14.040> know<00:09:14.320> maybe<00:09:14.960> uh<00:09:16.360> I<00:09:16.520> I<00:09:16.960> you<00:09:17.040> know<00:09:17.160> what<00:09:17.280> if<00:09:17.360> what<00:09:17.480> if<00:09:17.680> you<00:09:17.760> know<00:09:17.880> I<00:09:17.960> have<00:09:18.080> a<00:09:18.160> wife<00:09:18.440> and<00:09:18.520> we're<00:09:18.600> not<00:09:18.760> married

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and<00:09:19.920> then<00:09:20.360> she<00:09:20.520> gets<00:09:20.720> pregnant<00:09:21.720> and<00:09:21.800> then<00:09:21.920> I<00:09:21.960> decide<00:09:22.280> okay<00:09:22.839> I<00:09:22.920> need<00:09:23.080> to<00:09:23.520> I<00:09:23.560> need<00:09:23.720> to<00:09:23.800> marry<00:09:24.360> I<00:09:24.400> need<00:09:24.560> to<00:09:24.640> marry<00:09:24.839> this<00:09:25.000> woman<00:09:25.200> and<00:09:25.320> then<00:09:25.440> raise<00:09:25.640> this<00:09:25.760> child<00:09:26.080> and<00:09:26.160> then<00:09:26.240> the

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child<00:09:26.560> is<00:09:26.680> born<00:09:27.680> to<00:09:27.800> a<00:09:27.839> now<00:09:28.080> Jewish<00:09:28.320> mother<00:09:28.640> but<00:09:28.760> at<00:09:28.839> the<00:09:28.920> time<00:09:29.120> of<00:09:29.240> the<00:09:29.280> child<00:09:29.520> Well<00:09:29.760> you're<00:09:29.960> marrying<00:09:30.480> her<00:09:30.640> doesn't<00:09:30.960> make<00:09:31.120> her<00:09:31.240> Jewish.

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Or<00:09:32.320> rather<00:09:32.960> she<00:09:33.520> um<00:09:33.640> if<00:09:33.760> she<00:09:33.880> converts<00:09:34.360> to<00:09:34.440> Judaism<00:09:35.120> like<00:09:35.320> during<00:09:35.640> her<00:09:35.800> pregnancy<00:09:36.440> Doesn't<00:09:36.680> matter.

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So<00:09:37.800> so<00:09:38.160> In<00:09:38.280> fact,<00:09:38.600> it's<00:09:38.760> because<00:09:40.000> in<00:09:40.200> part<00:09:40.440> because<00:09:42.520> in<00:09:42.680> ancient<00:09:43.040> times,<00:09:43.760> again,<00:09:44.840> the<00:09:45.000> idea,<00:09:45.400> for<00:09:45.560> example,

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that<00:09:47.560> you<00:09:47.680> could<00:09:47.840> artificially<00:09:48.400> inseminate<00:09:48.880> someone<00:09:49.120> didn't<00:09:49.360> exist.

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It<00:09:49.760> was<00:09:49.880> a<00:09:49.920> question<00:09:50.280> of<00:09:50.800> giving<00:09:51.040> birth.<00:09:51.680> So,<00:09:51.920> if<00:09:52.040> you<00:09:52.200> give<00:09:52.400> birth<00:09:52.840> as<00:09:53.040> a<00:09:53.120> Jew,<00:09:53.840> the<00:09:53.960> child<00:09:54.320> is<00:09:54.440> Jewish.

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Okay.<00:09:55.120> I<00:09:55.200> I<00:09:55.640> I<00:09:55.680> find<00:09:55.880> that<00:09:55.960> quite<00:09:56.120> interesting<00:09:56.600> given<00:09:56.840> that<00:09:56.960> there's<00:09:57.960> a<00:09:58.040> lot<00:09:58.240> of<00:09:58.320> debate,<00:09:58.760> especially<00:09:59.600> with<00:09:59.800> sort<00:09:59.960> of<00:10:00.040> religious<00:10:00.360> undertones,<00:10:00.760> about<00:10:01.040> where<00:10:01.320> sort<00:10:01.480> of

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life<00:10:01.800> begins,<00:10:02.240> when<00:10:02.360> a<00:10:02.440> child<00:10:03.040> begins<00:10:03.400> to<00:10:03.480> be<00:10:03.600> its<00:10:03.800> own<00:10:04.520> sort<00:10:04.680> of<00:10:04.760> separate<00:10:05.120> person.

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And<00:10:05.840> it<00:10:05.920> seems<00:10:06.200> to<00:10:06.280> me<00:10:06.440> that<00:10:06.600> if<00:10:06.720> you<00:10:06.840> say<00:10:07.240> that<00:10:07.880> until<00:10:08.200> that<00:10:08.360> child<00:10:08.640> is<00:10:08.760> actually<00:10:09.080> born,<00:10:10.240> like<00:10:10.400> if<00:10:11.120> if<00:10:11.240> this<00:10:11.400> mother<00:10:11.680> converts<00:10:12.080> to<00:10:12.160> Judaism<00:10:12.920> the<00:10:13.040> day<00:10:13.280> before<00:10:13.560> she<00:10:13.680> gives

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birth,<00:10:14.920> then<00:10:15.080> the<00:10:15.200> child<00:10:15.440> that<00:10:15.520> comes<00:10:15.760> out<00:10:15.880> is<00:10:15.960> Jewish,<00:10:16.760> but<00:10:16.880> if<00:10:16.960> she<00:10:17.080> converts<00:10:17.400> the<00:10:17.480> day<00:10:17.640> afterwards,<00:10:18.560> that<00:10:18.680> child<00:10:18.920> is<00:10:19.040> not.

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Does<00:10:19.920> that<00:10:20.040> that<00:10:20.240> seems<00:10:20.520> to<00:10:20.680> sort<00:10:20.840> of<00:10:20.920> maybe<00:10:21.160> rub<00:10:21.360> up<00:10:21.480> against<00:10:21.840> the<00:10:22.400> the<00:10:22.480> religious<00:10:22.840> intuition<00:10:23.320> that<00:10:23.480> that<00:10:23.640> child<00:10:24.000> is<00:10:24.080> its<00:10:24.240> own<00:10:24.400> unique<00:10:24.680> person<00:10:25.320> long<00:10:25.560> before<00:10:26.120> the<00:10:26.360> the

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the<00:10:26.920> actual<00:10:27.200> moment<00:10:27.440> of<00:10:27.520> birth?<00:10:28.200> Well,<00:10:28.640> the<00:10:28.760> child<00:10:29.160> is<00:10:29.280> always<00:10:29.560> its<00:10:29.760> own<00:10:29.880> unique<00:10:30.200> person,<00:10:30.680> whether<00:10:30.960> they're<00:10:31.080> Jewish<00:10:31.400> or<00:10:31.480> not,<00:10:31.840> but<00:10:31.960> in<00:10:32.080> terms<00:10:32.360> of<00:10:32.480> whether<00:10:32.800> they<00:10:32.960> belong

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to<00:10:33.760> the<00:10:33.920> people<00:10:35.080> of<00:10:35.440> the<00:10:35.560> Jewish<00:10:35.840> tradition,<00:10:37.560> it<00:10:37.720> depends<00:10:38.160> whether<00:10:38.400> they're<00:10:38.560> born<00:10:38.920> to<00:10:39.040> someone<00:10:39.400> who's<00:10:39.600> part<00:10:39.800> of<00:10:39.880> that<00:10:40.040> people.

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And<00:10:40.920> if<00:10:41.040> they<00:10:41.160> don't,<00:10:41.960> they<00:10:42.200> can<00:10:42.440> then<00:10:42.640> join<00:10:42.880> the<00:10:42.960> people.

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You<00:10:43.360> can<00:10:43.480> convert<00:10:43.839> an<00:10:43.960> infant.<00:10:45.080> Um<00:10:45.560> what<00:10:45.720> is<00:10:45.839> interesting<00:10:46.280> in<00:10:46.360> the<00:10:46.440> Jewish<00:10:46.680> tradition<00:10:47.080> is<00:10:47.280> if<00:10:47.520> you<00:10:47.640> do<00:10:47.880> convert<00:10:48.240> an<00:10:48.360> infant,<00:10:48.960> at<00:10:49.160> 13,<00:10:49.920> that<00:10:50.120> child<00:10:51.080> has<00:10:51.400> a

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right<00:10:52.520> to<00:10:52.600> renounce<00:10:53.000> the<00:10:53.120> conversion.

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And<00:10:54.480> is<00:10:54.600> that<00:10:55.040> not<00:10:55.440> true<00:10:56.040> of<00:10:56.360> children<00:10:56.680> who<00:10:56.800> are<00:10:57.240> born<00:10:57.839> Jews?

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That<00:10:58.483> is<00:10:58.767> not<00:10:59.050> true<00:10:59.333> of<00:10:59.617> children<00:10:59.900> who<00:11:00.183> are<00:11:00.467> born<00:11:00.750> Interesting.<00:11:01.033> So,<00:11:01.317> because<00:11:01.600> you<00:11:01.883> made<00:11:02.167> the<00:11:02.450> choice<00:11:02.733> on<00:11:03.017> their<00:11:03.300> behalf,<00:11:03.583> but<00:11:03.867> the<00:11:04.150> sort<00:11:04.433> of<00:11:04.717> metaphysical<00:11:05.000> presumption

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is<00:11:05.640> every<00:11:05.880> Jew<00:11:06.120> who's<00:11:06.320> born<00:11:06.600> Jewish<00:11:07.320> made<00:11:07.560> the<00:11:07.640> choice<00:11:07.960> back<00:11:08.160> at<00:11:08.280> Sinai<00:11:08.760> on<00:11:08.920> their<00:11:09.080> own<00:11:09.200> behalf.

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Right.<00:11:09.680> Right.<00:11:09.920> That's<00:11:10.120> so<00:11:10.240> fascinating<00:11:10.720> 'cause<00:11:10.839> I'm<00:11:11.000> sort<00:11:11.160> of<00:11:11.240> imagining<00:11:12.120> this<00:11:12.320> this<00:11:12.560> pregnant<00:11:13.000> woman<00:11:13.920> and<00:11:14.080> sort<00:11:14.240> of<00:11:14.720> she<00:11:14.880> wants<00:11:15.080> to<00:11:15.160> convert<00:11:15.480> to<00:11:15.560> Judaism,<00:11:16.040> and<00:11:16.160> I<00:11:16.240> don't

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know,<00:11:16.480> there's<00:11:16.600> probably<00:11:16.800> some<00:11:16.960> ceremony<00:11:17.440> involved,<00:11:18.000> there's<00:11:18.280> some<00:11:18.400> moment.

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And<00:11:19.000> suppose<00:11:19.440> she<00:11:19.600> says,<00:11:19.960> you<00:11:20.040> know,<00:11:20.240> I'm<00:11:20.440> I'm<00:11:20.600> going<00:11:20.720> to<00:11:20.800> convert<00:11:21.080> to<00:11:21.160> Judaism<00:11:21.520> 'cause<00:11:21.640> I<00:11:21.680> want<00:11:21.880> my<00:11:21.960> child<00:11:22.200> to<00:11:22.280> be<00:11:22.360> Jewish.

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And<00:11:23.320> then,<00:11:23.760> you<00:11:23.839> know,<00:11:23.920> the<00:11:24.000> rabbi<00:11:24.280> comes<00:11:24.480> along<00:11:24.640> and<00:11:24.720> says,<00:11:25.040> you<00:11:25.080> know,<00:11:25.160> sorry,<00:11:25.520> something's<00:11:25.880> come<00:11:26.080> up.

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We<00:11:26.440> have<00:11:26.560> to<00:11:26.640> delay<00:11:26.920> this<00:11:27.640> for<00:11:27.760> 2<00:11:27.960> days.

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And<00:11:28.820> then<00:11:28.960> she<00:11:29.100> gives<00:11:29.240> birth.<00:11:29.380> And<00:11:29.520> then<00:11:29.660> she<00:11:29.800> gives<00:11:29.940> birth.<00:11:30.080> And<00:11:30.220> then<00:11:30.360> she<00:11:30.500> gives<00:11:30.640> birth.

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So,<00:11:30.760> then<00:11:30.880> the<00:11:30.920> child<00:11:31.120> would<00:11:31.240> have<00:11:31.400> to<00:11:31.480> be<00:11:31.560> converted.<00:11:31.960> Now<00:11:32.120> the<00:11:32.200> child<00:11:32.920> that's<00:11:33.160> 13<00:11:33.640> or<00:11:34.160> everything.<00:11:35.360> Well,<00:11:35.600> it<00:11:35.680> doesn't.<00:11:36.080> I<00:11:36.320> mean,<00:11:36.560> I've<00:11:36.920> I<00:11:37.040> don't<00:11:37.280> know<00:11:37.480> of<00:11:37.600> an<00:11:37.720> instance

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actually<00:11:38.480> of<00:11:38.560> a<00:11:38.600> child<00:11:38.880> of<00:11:38.960> 13<00:11:39.320> who<00:11:39.440> actually<00:11:39.800> renounced<00:11:40.360> their<00:11:40.880> uh.<00:11:42.560> But<00:11:43.480> this<00:11:43.840> is<00:11:44.000> part<00:11:44.240> of<00:11:44.400> a.<00:11:45.440> And<00:11:45.640> you're<00:11:45.800> very<00:11:46.120> familiar<00:11:46.520> with

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this<00:11:46.840> in<00:11:46.960> a<00:11:47.040> thousand<00:11:47.600> different<00:11:47.880> ways.<00:11:49.000> It<00:11:49.240> is<00:11:49.560> almost<00:11:50.080> impossible<00:11:50.760> in<00:11:50.880> slippery<00:11:51.320> slope<00:11:51.640> arguments<00:11:52.560> to<00:11:52.760> make<00:11:53.560> distinctions<00:11:54.480> that<00:11:54.720> always

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hold<00:11:55.440> and<00:11:55.640> always<00:11:55.960> make<00:11:56.160> sense.<00:11:56.840> So,<00:11:57.080> you<00:11:57.240> say<00:11:57.600> like<00:11:58.080> a<00:11:58.160> day<00:11:58.400> before<00:11:59.400> the<00:11:59.560> child<00:12:00.120> is<00:12:00.760> you<00:12:00.880> know<00:12:01.480> is<00:12:01.680> not<00:12:01.960> the<00:12:02.040> mother<00:12:02.320> isn't<00:12:02.520> Jewish<00:12:02.840> and<00:12:02.960> then<00:12:03.120> a

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day<00:12:03.400> after<00:12:04.160> is.<00:12:04.880> All<00:12:05.120> of<00:12:05.200> those<00:12:05.400> sorts<00:12:05.680> of<00:12:05.760> things<00:12:06.040> are<00:12:06.160> capable<00:12:06.560> of<00:12:06.680> infinite<00:12:07.160> slicing.

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So,<00:12:08.120> at<00:12:08.240> some<00:12:08.480> point<00:12:08.800> any<00:12:08.960> tradition,<00:12:09.440> any<00:12:09.600> legal<00:12:09.880> system<00:12:10.240> has<00:12:10.400> to<00:12:10.520> say<00:12:11.360> this<00:12:11.720> is<00:12:11.920> the<00:12:12.080> point<00:12:12.440> at<00:12:12.640> which<00:12:13.160> things<00:12:13.560> change.

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Especially<00:12:15.320> if<00:12:15.520> they're<00:12:15.680> remediable<00:12:16.800> because<00:12:17.520> if<00:12:17.640> a<00:12:17.720> child<00:12:18.000> is<00:12:18.120> born<00:12:18.320> not<00:12:18.520> Jewish,<00:12:19.200> you<00:12:19.320> can<00:12:19.440> change<00:12:19.720> it.

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It<00:12:20.520> seems<00:12:21.160> you<00:12:21.240> know<00:12:21.440> as<00:12:21.760> arbitrary<00:12:22.240> to<00:12:22.360> me<00:12:22.560> as<00:12:22.720> like<00:12:22.960> the<00:12:23.040> fact<00:12:23.240> that<00:12:23.360> if<00:12:23.480> you're<00:12:23.600> born<00:12:24.440> on<00:12:24.600> US<00:12:24.880> soil,<00:12:25.720> you're<00:12:25.880> a<00:12:25.920> US<00:12:26.120> citizen.

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Right?<00:12:26.760> It<00:12:26.840> sort<00:12:26.960> of<00:12:27.040> depends<00:12:27.320> when<00:12:27.440> you<00:12:27.480> get<00:12:27.600> on<00:12:27.680> the<00:12:27.760> plane.<00:12:28.080> But<00:12:28.200> but<00:12:28.360> this<00:12:28.640> to<00:12:28.760> me<00:12:29.920> gets<00:12:30.280> at<00:12:30.600> this<00:12:30.960> confusion<00:12:31.520> that<00:12:31.640> can<00:12:31.760> arise<00:12:32.680> when<00:12:32.960> trying<00:12:33.240> to<00:12:33.320> consider<00:12:33.720> what<00:12:33.880> Judaism

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is<00:12:34.760> and<00:12:34.880> and<00:12:35.080> the<00:12:35.160> word<00:12:35.480> sort<00:12:35.600> of<00:12:35.720> ethno-religious<00:12:36.800> is<00:12:36.920> often<00:12:37.120> thrown<00:12:37.320> around.

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If<00:12:38.156> you<00:12:38.393> think<00:12:38.629> it's<00:12:38.865> a<00:12:39.102> condition<00:12:39.338> of<00:12:39.575> soul,<00:12:39.811> then<00:12:40.047> it's<00:12:40.284> very<00:12:40.520> confusing.

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But<00:12:41.920> if<00:12:42.120> you<00:12:42.240> think<00:12:42.480> what<00:12:42.640> it<00:12:42.800> is<00:12:43.240> is<00:12:43.480> like<00:12:43.680> citizenship,<00:12:45.000> then<00:12:45.240> it's<00:12:45.360> not<00:12:45.560> so<00:12:45.680> confusing.

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I<00:12:46.800> think<00:12:46.960> that's<00:12:47.080> probably<00:12:47.440> right.<00:12:47.720> I<00:12:47.760> mean<00:12:49.360> I<00:12:49.560> as<00:12:49.760> it<00:12:49.880> seems<00:12:50.160> to<00:12:50.240> me<00:12:50.360> that<00:12:50.560> if<00:12:51.520> you<00:12:51.600> know<00:12:51.760> if<00:12:51.920> if<00:12:52.040> we're<00:12:52.120> talking<00:12:52.360> about<00:12:52.600> like<00:12:52.880> ethnicity<00:12:53.440> or<00:12:53.560> race,<00:12:54.120> you<00:12:54.200> know<00:12:54.400> if<00:12:54.600> if

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two<00:12:56.000> Rwandan<00:12:56.480> parents<00:12:57.040> have<00:12:57.200> a<00:12:57.240> child,<00:12:57.880> it<00:12:58.080> it<00:12:58.200> sort<00:12:58.320> of<00:12:58.400> doesn't<00:12:58.640> matter<00:12:58.880> when<00:12:59.080> that<00:12:59.240> child's<00:12:59.600> born.

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It<00:13:00.400> There's<00:13:00.560> no<00:13:00.920> There's<00:13:01.080> no<00:13:01.240> sort<00:13:01.360> of<00:13:01.440> slippery<00:13:01.839> slope<00:13:02.120> confusion<00:13:02.600> because<00:13:02.960> the<00:13:03.040> child<00:13:03.320> that<00:13:03.400> comes<00:13:03.600> out<00:13:03.720> is<00:13:04.000> is<00:13:04.160> just<00:13:04.320> going<00:13:04.520> to<00:13:04.600> be<00:13:04.680> Rwandan<00:13:05.040> no<00:13:05.320> matter<00:13:05.600> what.

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Nothing<00:13:06.080> changes<00:13:06.440> there<00:13:06.880> in<00:13:07.000> Rwanda<00:13:07.400> at<00:13:07.480> the<00:13:07.600> time.

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But<00:13:08.280> if<00:13:08.400> they're<00:13:08.560> in<00:13:08.680> America<00:13:09.480> like<00:13:10.400> like<00:13:11.080> like<00:13:11.280> in<00:13:11.360> terms<00:13:11.560> of<00:13:11.600> their<00:13:11.800> race<00:13:12.000> and<00:13:12.080> ethnicity<00:13:12.680> rather<00:13:12.920> than<00:13:13.040> their<00:13:13.200> their<00:13:13.320> nationality,<00:13:13.880> right?

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Like<00:13:14.160> that's<00:13:14.360> just<00:13:15.120> what<00:13:15.280> that<00:13:15.400> child<00:13:15.600> is<00:13:15.680> going<00:13:15.839> to<00:13:15.920> be.

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But<00:13:17.160> Judaism<00:13:17.640> does<00:13:17.800> not<00:13:17.960> work<00:13:18.120> that<00:13:18.320> way.<00:13:18.440> However,<00:13:18.680> when<00:13:18.800> it<00:13:18.880> comes<00:13:19.200> to<00:13:20.280> So<00:13:20.520> so<00:13:20.680> that's<00:13:20.960> why<00:13:21.200> you<00:13:21.280> know<00:13:21.360> Judaism<00:13:21.800> doesn't<00:13:22.000> work<00:13:22.160> like<00:13:22.280> an<00:13:22.360> ethnicity.

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So,<00:13:23.080> some<00:13:23.240> people<00:13:23.480> might<00:13:23.640> then<00:13:23.800> say,<00:13:24.000> "Well,<00:13:24.160> okay.<00:13:24.360> Well,<00:13:24.480> it's<00:13:24.600> more<00:13:24.720> like<00:13:24.839> a<00:13:24.880> religion<00:13:25.240> then."

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But<00:13:25.520> then<00:13:25.640> it<00:13:25.760> also<00:13:26.120> know<00:13:26.480> because<00:13:27.960> like<00:13:28.720> you<00:13:28.840> can't<00:13:29.080> sort<00:13:29.200> of<00:13:30.000> be<00:13:30.440> inescapably<00:13:31.280> born<00:13:32.200> religious<00:13:32.680> if<00:13:32.840> religion<00:13:33.240> is<00:13:33.360> a<00:13:33.480> is

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a<00:13:33.680> sort<00:13:33.840> of<00:13:36.000> a<00:13:36.040> product<00:13:36.320> of<00:13:36.400> what<00:13:36.560> you<00:13:36.640> believe<00:13:37.000> about<00:13:37.240> the<00:13:37.320> world,<00:13:37.720> right?

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And<00:13:37.960> so<00:13:38.040> it<00:13:38.160> sort<00:13:38.320> of<00:13:38.400> doesn't<00:13:38.640> fit<00:13:38.720> neatly<00:13:38.960> into<00:13:39.120> either<00:13:39.280> category,<00:13:39.600> that's<00:13:39.800> true,<00:13:40.080> but<00:13:40.560> you<00:13:40.640> see<00:13:40.760> why<00:13:40.840> this<00:13:41.000> is<00:13:41.080> confusing<00:13:41.560> for<00:13:41.680> people?

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Of<00:13:42.360> course.<00:13:42.600> Trying<00:13:42.720> to<00:13:42.800> work<00:13:42.960> out<00:13:43.080> what<00:13:43.200> this<00:13:43.400> thing<00:13:44.400> is.

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Why<00:13:44.880> that's<00:13:45.120> why<00:13:45.280> I<00:13:45.360> use<00:13:45.560> the<00:13:45.640> family<00:13:46.040> analogy,<00:13:46.480> because<00:13:46.640> it's<00:13:46.760> the<00:13:46.800> best<00:13:47.040> one<00:13:47.160> I<00:13:47.240> have.

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Um,<00:13:48.520> but<00:13:48.640> it's<00:13:48.800> also<00:13:49.320> why<00:13:49.760> there's<00:13:50.080> so<00:13:50.360> much<00:13:50.600> misunderstanding<00:13:51.360> about<00:13:51.600> what<00:13:51.760> Jews<00:13:51.960> are,<00:13:52.640> because<00:13:53.840> Christians<00:13:54.320> use<00:13:55.520> Christian<00:13:55.840> categories<00:13:56.400> which

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don't<00:13:56.800> fit.<00:13:57.720> Um,<00:13:58.520> and<00:13:58.680> it's<00:13:59.000> it's<00:13:59.240> also<00:13:59.600> by<00:13:59.760> the<00:13:59.840> way,<00:14:00.440> and<00:14:00.600> I<00:14:00.680> think<00:14:00.840> this<00:14:01.040> is<00:14:01.640> worth<00:14:01.880> mentioning,<00:14:02.840> it<00:14:03.160> also<00:14:03.560> explains<00:14:04.320> certain<00:14:04.680> differences

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between<00:14:05.520> Judaism<00:14:05.920> and<00:14:06.000> Christianity<00:14:06.720> that<00:14:06.880> people<00:14:07.240> may<00:14:07.440> observe,<00:14:08.440> but<00:14:08.640> don't<00:14:08.880> fully<00:14:09.120> understand.

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One<00:14:10.880> is,<00:14:11.440> it's<00:14:11.640> one<00:14:11.800> of<00:14:11.880> the<00:14:11.920> reasons<00:14:12.240> why<00:14:12.360> Christianity<00:14:13.040> is<00:14:13.160> a<00:14:13.240> much<00:14:13.640> more<00:14:13.800> transportable<00:14:14.600> religion.

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Right.<00:14:16.600> To<00:14:16.680> be<00:14:16.800> universal<00:14:17.400> in<00:14:17.480> a<00:14:17.520> way<00:14:17.640> that<00:14:17.800> Judaism<00:14:18.240> isn't,<00:14:18.840> but<00:14:18.960> on<00:14:19.080> the<00:14:19.240> other<00:14:19.480> hand,<00:14:19.680> it's<00:14:19.840> why<00:14:20.040> Judaism<00:14:21.160> is<00:14:21.480> a<00:14:21.600> much<00:14:22.040> more<00:14:23.040> connected<00:14:23.640> religion.

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So,<00:14:24.240> for<00:14:24.360> example,<00:14:25.600> when<00:14:25.760> the<00:14:25.840> Soviet<00:14:26.320> Union<00:14:26.680> persecuted<00:14:27.320> Jews,<00:14:28.120> they<00:14:28.280> also<00:14:28.520> persecuted<00:14:29.040> Christians,<00:14:29.600> but<00:14:29.800> there<00:14:29.920> was<00:14:30.160> no<00:14:30.400> worldwide<00:14:31.000> Christian<00:14:31.800> movement<00:14:32.400> to

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save<00:14:32.760> the<00:14:32.880> Christians<00:14:33.240> of<00:14:33.320> the<00:14:33.440> Soviet<00:14:33.839> Union,<00:14:34.640> but<00:14:34.839> there<00:14:34.960> was<00:14:35.200> a<00:14:35.240> worldwide<00:14:35.720> Jewish<00:14:36.040> movement.

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Why?<00:14:36.680> Because<00:14:37.080> there<00:14:37.320> is<00:14:37.480> this<00:14:37.720> kinship<00:14:38.320> sense<00:14:39.400> that<00:14:39.520> Christians<00:14:40.040> don't<00:14:40.320> feel<00:14:40.560> with<00:14:40.760> one<00:14:40.920> another,<00:14:41.640> that<00:14:41.800> Jews<00:14:42.160> do<00:14:42.360> feel<00:14:42.600> with<00:14:42.760> one<00:14:42.960> another,<00:14:43.280> and<00:14:43.360> it's<00:14:43.520> a<00:14:43.560> result<00:14:44.000> of

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this<00:14:44.320> different<00:14:45.120> kind<00:14:45.400> of<00:14:45.520> origin.<00:14:46.480> Um,<00:14:47.960> there's<00:14:48.240> more<00:14:48.440> to<00:14:48.560> say<00:14:48.760> about<00:14:49.040> that,<00:14:49.240> but<00:14:49.400> I<00:14:49.440> think<00:14:49.640> that<00:14:49.760> that's<00:14:50.080> also<00:14:50.680> that<00:14:50.839> helps<00:14:51.120> people<00:14:51.440> understand<00:14:53.000> it's

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not<00:14:53.800> purely<00:14:54.480> a<00:14:54.560> declaration<00:14:55.200> of<00:14:55.320> faith,<00:14:55.880> it<00:14:56.160> is<00:14:56.880> a<00:14:57.000> sort<00:14:57.320> of<00:14:57.960> membership<00:14:58.680> in<00:14:58.880> what<00:14:59.240> what<00:14:59.440> Jews<00:14:59.680> think<00:14:59.880> of<00:15:00.000> as<00:15:00.120> an<00:15:00.240> eternal<00:15:00.680> people.

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Do<00:15:01.880> I<00:15:01.920> need<00:15:02.080> to<00:15:02.200> believe<00:15:02.520> in<00:15:02.680> God<00:15:03.240> to<00:15:03.360> be<00:15:03.720> Jewish?

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No.<00:15:05.480> There<00:15:05.560> are<00:15:05.640> many<00:15:05.880> Jews<00:15:06.080> who<00:15:06.200> don't.

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Do<00:15:07.109> I<00:15:07.298> need<00:15:07.487> to<00:15:07.676> I<00:15:07.865> suggest<00:15:08.055> it,<00:15:08.244> but<00:15:08.433> you<00:15:08.622> don't<00:15:08.811> have<00:15:09.000> to.

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Do<00:15:09.880> I<00:15:09.960> need<00:15:10.080> to<00:15:10.160> believe<00:15:10.320> in<00:15:10.400> God<00:15:10.680> to<00:15:11.080> convert<00:15:11.600> to<00:15:11.800> Judaism?

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Depends<00:15:13.880> with<00:15:14.040> whom<00:15:14.240> you<00:15:14.360> convert,<00:15:15.080> actually.

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There<00:15:15.960> are<00:15:16.040> some<00:15:16.440> there<00:15:16.640> are<00:15:16.760> some<00:15:17.680> Jewish<00:15:19.200> um<00:15:20.920> I<00:15:21.600> don't<00:15:21.720> want<00:15:21.839> to<00:15:21.880> say<00:15:22.000> groups,<00:15:22.280> ideologies,<00:15:23.040> whatever<00:15:23.440> that<00:15:23.600> would<00:15:23.760> say<00:15:23.920> you

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don't<00:15:24.400> and<00:15:24.520> others<00:15:24.800> that<00:15:24.960> would<00:15:25.080> say<00:15:25.280> you<00:15:25.400> do.<00:15:26.360> Interesting.

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Um,<00:15:27.960> I<00:15:28.200> guess<00:15:28.400> I'm<00:15:28.920> sort<00:15:29.120> of<00:15:29.200> maybe<00:15:29.560> perhaps<00:15:29.960> inappropriately<00:15:30.680> or<00:15:30.760> unfairly<00:15:31.200> trying<00:15:31.440> to<00:15:31.560> get<00:15:31.760> to<00:15:31.880> grips<00:15:32.160> with<00:15:32.880> what<00:15:33.040> the<00:15:33.080> sort<00:15:33.240> of<00:15:33.320> necessary<00:15:33.880> and<00:15:34.000> sufficient<00:15:34.320> conditions

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are<00:15:34.960> for<00:15:35.200> for<00:15:35.320> Judaism<00:15:35.800> here.<00:15:36.000> Like<00:15:36.520> you<00:15:36.640> you<00:15:36.960> you<00:15:37.080> talked<00:15:37.320> earlier<00:15:37.560> about<00:15:37.840> this<00:15:38.200> I<00:15:38.320> would<00:15:38.440> say<00:15:38.560> the<00:15:38.680> greatest<00:15:39.320> condition<00:15:39.880> is<00:15:40.040> you<00:15:40.160> want<00:15:40.600> to<00:15:40.760> throw<00:15:41.480> your<00:15:41.760> lot<00:15:42.160> in<00:15:42.400> with

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the<00:15:42.680> destiny<00:15:43.200> of<00:15:43.320> the<00:15:43.400> Jewish<00:15:43.720> people.<00:15:44.200> Right.

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That's<00:15:44.840> what<00:15:45.000> you're<00:15:45.200> asked<00:15:46.160> again<00:15:46.520> and<00:15:46.640> again.

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So<00:15:47.520> it's<00:15:47.720> sort<00:15:47.920> of<00:15:48.040> an<00:15:48.280> it's<00:15:48.520> it's<00:15:48.680> like<00:15:48.800> an<00:15:48.880> attachment<00:15:49.400> to<00:15:49.480> a<00:15:49.560> people<00:15:50.200> rather<00:15:50.480> than<00:15:50.640> a<00:15:50.720> system<00:15:51.040> of<00:15:51.120> belief.

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Yes,<00:15:53.040> it<00:15:53.200> involves<00:15:53.680> a<00:15:53.720> system<00:15:54.080> of<00:15:54.200> beliefs,<00:15:54.760> but<00:15:55.080> if<00:15:55.240> you<00:15:55.400> look<00:15:55.640> even<00:15:55.880> at<00:15:56.000> the<00:15:56.120> classic<00:15:57.200> example<00:15:57.680> of<00:15:57.760> conversion,<00:15:58.760> which<00:15:58.960> is<00:15:59.160> Ruth<00:15:59.440> in<00:15:59.520> the<00:15:59.600> Bible,<00:16:00.520> she

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says,<00:16:01.400> "Your<00:16:01.680> people<00:16:02.080> shall<00:16:02.280> be<00:16:02.400> my<00:16:02.640> people<00:16:03.080> and<00:16:03.240> your<00:16:03.400> God<00:16:03.640> shall<00:16:03.800> be<00:16:03.920> my<00:16:04.120> God."

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She<00:16:04.640> proceeds<00:16:05.160> people<00:16:05.480> to<00:16:05.600> God.<00:16:06.120> Mhm,<00:16:06.440> interesting.

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Yeah,<00:16:07.280> yeah.<00:16:07.960> Reverse<00:16:08.560> of<00:16:08.680> the<00:16:08.800> way<00:16:09.240> Christianity<00:16:10.800> would<00:16:10.960> put<00:16:11.120> it.

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Yeah,<00:16:11.640> well<00:16:11.800> this<00:16:12.120> this<00:16:13.320> sort<00:16:13.440> of<00:16:14.200> theme<00:16:14.560> of<00:16:14.800> of<00:16:15.960> the<00:16:16.040> chosen<00:16:16.400> people<00:16:16.720> of<00:16:16.840> God<00:16:17.760> is<00:16:18.280> like<00:16:18.680> the<00:16:18.880> theme<00:16:19.280> of<00:16:19.480> of

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the<00:16:19.680> Hebrew<00:16:20.000> Bible<00:16:20.520> and<00:16:21.560> it<00:16:21.680> does<00:16:21.840> seem<00:16:22.080> strange<00:16:22.440> to<00:16:22.520> me<00:16:22.600> I<00:16:22.680> must<00:16:22.920> say.

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And<00:16:23.600> I<00:16:23.640> speak<00:16:23.880> to<00:16:23.960> a<00:16:24.000> lot<00:16:24.120> of<00:16:24.320> my<00:16:24.440> Christian<00:16:24.839> friends<00:16:25.080> about<00:16:25.360> this.

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We<00:16:26.200> sort<00:16:26.320> of<00:16:26.400> say,<00:16:26.520> "You<00:16:26.600> know,<00:16:26.680> how<00:16:26.760> do<00:16:26.839> you<00:16:26.920> feel<00:16:27.120> about<00:16:27.320> Judaism?"<00:16:27.960> And<00:16:28.080> they<00:16:28.200> say,<00:16:28.360> "Well,<00:16:28.600> you<00:16:28.680> know,<00:16:29.440> obviously<00:16:29.760> we're<00:16:29.880> not<00:16:30.040> Jews,<00:16:30.520> but<00:16:31.480> Judaism<00:16:31.880> is<00:16:31.960> very<00:16:32.120> special."

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Um,<00:16:33.200> it's<00:16:33.360> obviously<00:16:33.680> attached<00:16:34.280> to<00:16:34.680> to<00:16:34.800> Christianity.

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The<00:16:36.080> Hebrew<00:16:36.360> Bible<00:16:37.160> is<00:16:37.320> their<00:16:37.560> Old<00:16:37.839> Testament.

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It's<00:16:38.520> still<00:16:38.720> part<00:16:38.920> of<00:16:38.960> their<00:16:39.120> scripture.<00:16:40.160> But<00:16:40.720> a<00:16:40.800> lot<00:16:41.000> of<00:16:41.080> them<00:16:41.360> have<00:16:41.520> said<00:16:41.760> to<00:16:41.839> me,<00:16:42.200> "But<00:16:42.320> to<00:16:42.400> be<00:16:42.480> honest,<00:16:43.240> I<00:16:43.560> I<00:16:43.640> haven't<00:16:43.960> really<00:16:44.120> got<00:16:44.280> my<00:16:44.360> head<00:16:44.480> around<00:16:44.720> this<00:16:45.000> and<00:16:45.320> I<00:16:45.360> can't

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really<00:16:46.000> figure<00:16:46.280> out<00:16:46.480> what's<00:16:46.640> going<00:16:46.920> on<00:16:47.120> when<00:16:47.320> God<00:16:47.560> says,<00:16:47.920> this<00:16:48.040> God<00:16:48.240> that<00:16:48.360> I<00:16:48.440> believe<00:16:48.680> in,<00:16:48.800> God<00:16:48.960> of<00:16:49.080> love,<00:16:49.760> God<00:16:49.920> who<00:16:50.000> wants<00:16:50.160> to<00:16:50.240> come<00:16:50.360> to<00:16:50.480> know<00:16:50.560> everybody,<00:16:51.760> in<00:16:51.920> in<00:16:52.040> his

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image,<00:16:52.440> says,<00:16:52.680> 'But<00:16:52.839> these<00:16:53.080> people<00:16:53.320> are<00:16:53.360> my<00:16:53.480> favorite.'"<00:16:54.560> Well,<00:16:54.600> he<00:16:54.680> doesn't<00:16:54.920> say<00:16:55.040> favorite.

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So<00:16:55.960> so<00:16:56.080> what<00:16:56.200> what<00:16:56.280> does<00:16:56.400> it<00:16:56.480> mean<00:16:56.600> to<00:16:56.680> be<00:16:56.760> the<00:16:57.200> the<00:16:57.280> chosen<00:16:57.640> people?

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It<00:16:58.264> means<00:16:58.448> you<00:16:58.632> have<00:16:58.816> a<00:16:59.000> certain<00:16:59.184> responsibility<00:16:59.368> in<00:16:59.551> the<00:16:59.735> world,<00:16:59.919> a<00:17:00.103> certain<00:17:00.287> mission<00:17:00.471> in<00:17:00.655> the<00:17:00.839> world.

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In<00:17:01.200> fact,<00:17:02.120> I<00:17:02.240> had<00:17:02.520> this<00:17:02.920> and<00:17:03.080> by<00:17:03.200> the<00:17:03.320> way,<00:17:03.920> it's<00:17:04.839> um,<00:17:05.360> the<00:17:05.480> favorite<00:17:06.079> there<00:17:06.680> shall<00:17:06.920> say<00:17:07.240> I'll<00:17:07.400> tell<00:17:07.520> you<00:17:07.640> one<00:17:07.800> story<00:17:08.079> and<00:17:08.160> then<00:17:08.280> say<00:17:08.439> something<00:17:08.720> you<00:17:08.800> specifically<00:17:09.439> Christian

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Jewish.<00:17:10.720> Um,<00:17:11.680> I<00:17:11.720> remember<00:17:12.120> once<00:17:12.920> uh,<00:17:13.000> my<00:17:13.199> brother<00:17:13.520> is<00:17:13.640> a<00:17:13.680> professor<00:17:14.079> at<00:17:14.199> Emory<00:17:14.520> and<00:17:14.640> so<00:17:14.800> is<00:17:14.920> the<00:17:15.000> the<00:17:15.280> Lama.

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He<00:17:16.040> no<00:17:16.199> longer<00:17:16.480> goes<00:17:16.800> because<00:17:17.000> he's<00:17:17.199> older,<00:17:17.439> but<00:17:18.079> so<00:17:18.800> um<00:17:18.880> my<00:17:19.040> brother<00:17:19.319> was<00:17:19.439> bringing<00:17:19.680> a<00:17:19.760> bunch<00:17:20.040> of<00:17:20.280> students<00:17:20.760> to<00:17:20.839> meet<00:17:21.040> with<00:17:21.160> the<00:17:21.199> Dalai<00:17:21.480> Lama<00:17:21.839> in<00:17:21.959> Dharamsala,<00:17:22.720> and<00:17:22.880> I

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met<00:17:23.160> them<00:17:23.319> there.<00:17:23.560> And<00:17:23.680> so<00:17:23.800> my<00:17:23.920> brother<00:17:24.120> and<00:17:24.240> I<00:17:24.280> had<00:17:24.400> an<00:17:24.520> audience<00:17:25.319> with<00:17:25.480> his<00:17:25.680> wife<00:17:26.240> um<00:17:26.600> with<00:17:26.760> the<00:17:26.880> Dalai<00:17:27.160> Lama,<00:17:27.640> not<00:17:27.800> with<00:17:27.920> the<00:17:27.959> Dalai<00:17:28.199> Lama's<00:17:28.560> wife,<00:17:28.800> with<00:17:28.920> my<00:17:29.040> brother's

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wife.<00:17:30.000> Um<00:17:31.040> and<00:17:31.480> as<00:17:31.720> we<00:17:31.840> sit<00:17:32.040> down<00:17:32.240> and<00:17:32.400> I<00:17:32.560> when<00:17:32.760> I<00:17:32.800> was<00:17:33.000> there,<00:17:33.280> I<00:17:33.360> actually<00:17:33.640> gave<00:17:33.840> a<00:17:33.880> lecture<00:17:34.280> to<00:17:34.440> the<00:17:34.880> monks<00:17:35.360> in<00:17:35.480> Tibet<00:17:35.960> about<00:17:36.320> how<00:17:36.480> you<00:17:36.600> survive<00:17:37.000> in<00:17:37.800> exile,

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because<00:17:38.600> they<00:17:38.680> were<00:17:38.760> all<00:17:38.880> in<00:17:38.960> exile.<00:17:39.960> But<00:17:40.480> when<00:17:40.680> we<00:17:40.800> sat<00:17:41.040> down,<00:17:41.320> the<00:17:41.440> first<00:17:41.920> thing<00:17:43.240> as<00:17:43.440> he<00:17:43.600> opened<00:17:43.880> the<00:17:43.960> conversation,<00:17:44.600> he<00:17:44.720> pointed<00:17:45.040> to<00:17:45.120> me<00:17:45.240> and<00:17:45.320> said,<00:17:45.480> "What's<00:17:45.680> this

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about<00:17:46.040> the<00:17:46.120> chosen<00:17:46.480> people<00:17:46.800> anyway?"<00:17:47.640> Yeah.

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So<00:17:48.760> I<00:17:48.920> said,<00:17:49.760> "It's<00:17:50.040> true.

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Jews<00:17:50.720> believe<00:17:51.040> they<00:17:51.120> have<00:17:51.240> a<00:17:51.280> special<00:17:51.640> mission<00:17:51.920> in<00:17:52.040> the<00:17:52.120> world."

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I<00:17:52.440> said,<00:17:52.680> "But<00:17:53.480> that<00:17:53.640> doesn't<00:17:53.880> mean<00:17:54.000> that<00:17:54.120> other<00:17:54.320> peoples<00:17:54.640> don't<00:17:54.840> have<00:17:54.960> a<00:17:55.000> special<00:17:55.360> mission.

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We<00:17:55.960> assume<00:17:56.240> other<00:17:56.400> peoples<00:17:56.760> probably<00:17:57.160> think<00:17:57.360> they're<00:17:57.480> chosen,<00:17:57.840> too."

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And<00:17:58.080> he<00:17:58.840> burst<00:17:59.120> out<00:17:59.240> laughing.<00:17:59.560> He<00:17:59.600> goes,<00:17:59.800> "Yeah,<00:18:00.360> we<00:18:00.520> also<00:18:00.760> think<00:18:00.960> we're<00:18:01.040> special."

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Yeah,<00:18:01.920> sure.<00:18:02.360> I<00:18:02.520> don't<00:18:02.880> know<00:18:03.200> of<00:18:03.360> a<00:18:03.440> people<00:18:03.760> that<00:18:03.920> don't<00:18:04.240> think<00:18:04.480> they're<00:18:04.640> special.

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Even<00:18:05.400> though<00:18:05.480> the<00:18:05.600> Jews<00:18:05.880> always<00:18:06.160> get<00:18:06.400> this.<00:18:06.800> If<00:18:06.960> you<00:18:07.120> ask<00:18:07.320> the<00:18:07.480> Albanians,<00:18:08.120> "Are<00:18:08.280> Albanians<00:18:08.880> special?"

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I'm<00:18:09.800> sure<00:18:10.240> they<00:18:10.400> will<00:18:10.560> say,<00:18:10.760> "Yes,<00:18:11.000> Albanians<00:18:11.520> are<00:18:11.600> special."

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And<00:18:12.760> the<00:18:12.920> other<00:18:13.160> piece<00:18:13.480> of<00:18:13.560> this<00:18:13.800> is<00:18:15.240> that<00:18:15.880> that<00:18:16.760> I<00:18:16.960> must<00:18:17.240> confess<00:18:17.720> irks<00:18:18.040> me<00:18:18.160> a<00:18:18.200> little<00:18:18.560> bit<00:18:18.800> sometimes<00:18:19.320> in<00:18:19.440> conversations<00:18:20.440> um<00:18:21.040> with

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uh<00:18:22.160> with<00:18:22.360> Christians<00:18:22.840> who<00:18:24.080> who<00:18:24.440> have<00:18:24.640> a<00:18:24.720> hard<00:18:25.120> time<00:18:25.320> with<00:18:25.440> the<00:18:25.520> chosen<00:18:25.920> people<00:18:26.280> idea.

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Here's<00:18:28.000> another<00:18:28.400> theological<00:18:29.000> difference<00:18:29.280> between<00:18:29.480> classical<00:18:30.120> Christianity<00:18:30.960> and<00:18:31.120> Judaism.

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In<00:18:32.480> order<00:18:32.720> to<00:18:32.840> be<00:18:32.960> saved,<00:18:33.480> you<00:18:33.560> must<00:18:33.800> believe<00:18:34.080> in<00:18:34.160> Jesus.

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If<00:18:35.520> you<00:18:35.640> don't,<00:18:36.360> you're<00:18:36.520> damned.<00:18:37.440> Judaism<00:18:37.960> does<00:18:38.120> not<00:18:38.360> have<00:18:38.480> that.

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In<00:18:39.920> Jew-<00:18:40.160> In<00:18:40.200> the<00:18:40.320> Jewish<00:18:40.600> tradition,<00:18:41.160> if<00:18:41.320> you<00:18:41.440> are<00:18:41.560> a<00:18:41.640> good<00:18:41.880> person,<00:18:42.600> you<00:18:42.760> get<00:18:43.000> whatever<00:18:43.280> the<00:18:43.400> world<00:18:43.680> to<00:18:43.760> come<00:18:44.040> is,<00:18:44.680> which<00:18:44.880> is<00:18:45.000> a<00:18:45.040> separate<00:18:45.400> question.

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But<00:18:45.840> whatever<00:18:46.160> it<00:18:46.280> is,<00:18:46.640> you<00:18:46.800> get<00:18:47.000> that.<00:18:47.600> So<00:18:47.840> in<00:18:47.960> fact,<00:18:48.320> I<00:18:48.360> think<00:18:48.600> chosenness<00:18:49.200> has<00:18:49.400> less<00:18:49.720> consequences<00:18:50.520> eternally<00:18:51.440> for<00:18:51.640> Jews<00:18:52.400> than<00:18:52.520> believing<00:18:52.880> Jesus<00:18:53.240> does<00:18:53.440> for<00:18:53.560> Christians,

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but<00:18:54.360> nobody<00:18:54.760> says<00:18:55.000> to<00:18:55.120> Christians,<00:18:55.520> "How<00:18:55.680> dare<00:18:56.000> you<00:18:56.520> have<00:18:56.760> this<00:18:57.080> tremendous<00:18:57.600> hubris<00:18:58.080> that<00:18:58.240> you<00:18:58.360> think<00:18:58.560> only<00:18:58.800> people<00:18:59.080> who<00:18:59.160> believe<00:18:59.480> like<00:18:59.680> you<00:18:59.840> can<00:18:59.960> be<00:19:00.080> saved."

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Well,<00:19:00.680> I<00:19:00.720> think<00:19:00.880> there's<00:19:01.080> a<00:19:01.400> there's<00:19:01.560> a<00:19:02.160> extent<00:19:02.560> to<00:19:02.680> which<00:19:03.680> belief<00:19:04.040> in<00:19:04.160> Jesus,<00:19:04.960> and<00:19:05.200> I<00:19:05.320> I<00:19:05.360> don't<00:19:05.560> know<00:19:05.680> if<00:19:05.840> Christians<00:19:06.280> would<00:19:06.400> be<00:19:06.520> happy<00:19:06.800> with<00:19:06.960> the<00:19:07.080> idea<00:19:07.280> of<00:19:07.400> it<00:19:07.480> being

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belief<00:19:08.040> in<00:19:08.160> Jesus.<00:19:08.720> It<00:19:08.880> might<00:19:09.880> I<00:19:10.080> mean,<00:19:10.200> a<00:19:10.240> lot<00:19:10.520> of<00:19:10.600> people<00:19:10.800> say<00:19:10.920> you<00:19:10.960> don't<00:19:11.120> need<00:19:11.200> to<00:19:11.280> know<00:19:11.400> who<00:19:11.600> Jesus<00:19:11.920> is<00:19:12.080> to<00:19:12.160> be<00:19:12.240> saved,<00:19:12.600> this<00:19:12.720> kind<00:19:12.880> of<00:19:12.960> thing.

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Acceptance<00:19:13.920> of<00:19:14.000> Jesus.<00:19:14.400> Sure,<00:19:14.640> acceptance<00:19:15.120> of<00:19:15.240> Jesus,<00:19:15.720> you<00:19:15.840> know,<00:19:16.320> acceptance<00:19:16.720> of<00:19:16.800> a<00:19:16.840> message,<00:19:17.200> of<00:19:17.280> a<00:19:17.320> sacrifice.

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But<00:19:18.520> there's<00:19:19.040> there<00:19:19.160> seems<00:19:19.360> to<00:19:19.440> be<00:19:19.480> a<00:19:19.520> level<00:19:19.760> of<00:19:19.880> autonomy<00:19:20.400> there<00:19:21.120> where<00:19:21.280> somebody<00:19:21.680> can<00:19:22.480> Where<00:19:22.600> you<00:19:22.680> can<00:19:23.000> to<00:19:23.080> some<00:19:23.240> degree<00:19:23.640> choose<00:19:24.000> to<00:19:24.080> do<00:19:24.160> that<00:19:24.320> or<00:19:24.360> choose<00:19:24.560> not<00:19:24.720> to<00:19:24.800> do

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that.<00:19:25.120> Jewish.<00:19:25.480> We<00:19:25.600> just<00:19:25.960> went<00:19:26.120> through<00:19:26.280> this.<00:19:27.560> It<00:19:27.680> takes<00:19:27.960> a<00:19:28.040> little<00:19:28.480> It<00:19:28.600> takes<00:19:28.840> a<00:19:28.880> little<00:19:29.120> more<00:19:29.280> work,<00:19:29.600> but<00:19:29.760> you<00:19:29.840> can<00:19:29.960> do<00:19:30.080> the<00:19:30.160> same<00:19:30.360> thing.

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It<00:19:31.000> seems<00:19:31.280> like<00:19:31.480> at<00:19:31.600> least<00:19:31.840> in<00:19:31.960> the<00:19:32.240> in<00:19:32.360> the<00:19:32.440> Hebrew<00:19:32.720> scriptures,<00:19:33.440> you<00:19:33.520> know,<00:19:33.840> God<00:19:34.080> here<00:19:34.320> is<00:19:34.520> is<00:19:34.640> building<00:19:34.960> something<00:19:35.280> akin<00:19:35.520> to<00:19:35.640> a<00:19:35.680> nation.

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Yeah.<00:19:36.680> A<00:19:36.760> nation<00:19:37.160> of<00:19:37.240> people<00:19:37.640> and<00:19:37.800> and<00:19:37.920> that<00:19:38.160> seems<00:19:39.040> But<00:19:39.280> many<00:19:39.720> people<00:19:40.080> in<00:19:40.160> the<00:19:40.240> scriptures<00:19:40.680> join<00:19:40.960> that<00:19:41.120> nation.

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Many<00:19:42.040> different<00:19:42.440> people<00:19:42.720> do<00:19:43.200> who<00:19:43.360> don't<00:19:43.640> start<00:19:43.960> out<00:19:44.160> being<00:19:44.360> part<00:19:44.560> of<00:19:44.640> that<00:19:44.800> nation.

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So<00:19:45.440> again,<00:19:47.640> Yeah,<00:19:47.800> I<00:19:47.840> mean,<00:19:47.960> this<00:19:48.160> this<00:19:48.320> would<00:19:48.440> this<00:19:48.640> will<00:19:48.760> definitely<00:19:49.200> require<00:19:49.680> the<00:19:49.840> idea<00:19:50.240> that<00:19:51.040> you<00:19:51.120> know,<00:19:51.680> becoming<00:19:52.120> a<00:19:52.200> Jew<00:19:52.640> is<00:19:52.880> analogous<00:19:53.480> to

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becoming<00:19:54.560> Christian<00:19:55.000> where<00:19:55.120> it's<00:19:55.160> something<00:19:55.360> that<00:19:55.480> you<00:19:55.560> can<00:19:55.680> sort<00:19:55.840> of<00:19:55.920> choose<00:19:56.480> to<00:19:56.560> do.

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do<00:20:01.240> cuz<00:20:01.360> I<00:20:01.400> think<00:20:01.560> the<00:20:01.640> problem<00:20:01.920> people<00:20:02.160> will<00:20:02.320> have<00:20:02.640> is<00:20:02.760> that<00:20:03.640> if<00:20:03.800> God<00:20:04.000> has<00:20:04.120> chosen<00:20:04.480> a<00:20:04.520> people<00:20:05.640> and<00:20:05.760> that<00:20:05.920> people<00:20:06.720> is<00:20:06.840> identified<00:20:07.800> with<00:20:08.080> something<00:20:08.360> like<00:20:08.480> the<00:20:08.520> modern<00:20:08.760> concept

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of<00:20:09.240> ethnicity,<00:20:10.440> then<00:20:10.560> that<00:20:10.720> starts<00:20:10.920> getting<00:20:11.120> very<00:20:11.280> troublesome<00:20:11.640> very<00:20:11.800> quickly.

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of<00:20:13.040> it<00:20:13.120> this<00:20:13.360> way.<00:20:13.880> So,<00:20:14.200> I<00:20:14.360> say<00:20:14.840> to<00:20:15.680> I<00:20:15.800> don't<00:20:16.080> know,<00:20:16.360> to<00:20:16.560> my<00:20:16.880> organization,<00:20:18.200> we<00:20:18.360> have<00:20:18.520> a<00:20:18.560> special<00:20:18.920> mission<00:20:19.240> in<00:20:19.320> the<00:20:19.440> world,<00:20:20.080> members<00:20:20.680> of<00:20:21.000> party

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X,<00:20:21.760> Y,<00:20:21.960> or<00:20:22.080> Z.<00:20:23.840> And<00:20:25.160> you're<00:20:25.400> special<00:20:25.920> because<00:20:26.360> you're<00:20:26.560> going<00:20:26.920> to<00:20:27.160> you're<00:20:27.320> going<00:20:27.440> to<00:20:27.520> be<00:20:27.600> the<00:20:27.640> ones<00:20:27.840> who<00:20:27.920> are<00:20:28.000> save<00:20:28.280> American<00:20:28.680> democracy,<00:20:29.240> party<00:20:29.640> X.

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And<00:20:30.800> then<00:20:30.920> someone<00:20:31.200> comes<00:20:31.400> along<00:20:31.640> and<00:20:31.760> says,<00:20:32.720> "How<00:20:32.840> could<00:20:33.040> you<00:20:33.160> be<00:20:33.280> so<00:20:33.480> conceited<00:20:34.000> as<00:20:34.120> to<00:20:34.240> say<00:20:34.400> they're<00:20:34.600> the<00:20:34.680> ones<00:20:34.840> who<00:20:34.880> are<00:20:34.960> going<00:20:35.080> to<00:20:35.120> save<00:20:35.280> democracy?"

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I<00:20:36.280> would<00:20:36.440> say,<00:20:36.720> "Because<00:20:37.120> that's<00:20:37.400> what<00:20:37.560> their<00:20:37.760> mission<00:20:38.160> is.

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If<00:20:38.840> you<00:20:38.920> want<00:20:39.080> to<00:20:39.120> join<00:20:39.440> them,<00:20:39.960> join<00:20:40.240> them<00:20:40.400> and<00:20:40.520> you<00:20:40.640> can<00:20:40.760> be<00:20:41.080> part<00:20:41.280> of<00:20:41.320> the<00:20:41.440> ones<00:20:41.600> that<00:20:41.720> save<00:20:41.880> democracy,<00:20:42.400> too,<00:20:42.680> or<00:20:42.840> whatever<00:20:43.760> the<00:20:43.880> mission<00:20:44.240> is."

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So,<00:20:45.360> I<00:20:45.480> don't<00:20:45.840> see<00:20:46.080> that<00:20:46.600> as<00:20:47.840> a<00:20:48.360> at<00:20:48.600> all<00:20:48.920> a<00:20:49.000> statement<00:20:49.600> of<00:20:49.800> racial<00:20:50.680> or<00:20:50.840> ethnic<00:20:51.160> superiority.

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So,<00:20:52.720> this<00:20:52.960> concept<00:20:53.440> of<00:20:53.800> chosen<00:20:54.320> people<00:20:54.800> is<00:20:54.960> about<00:20:55.320> sort<00:20:55.480> of<00:20:56.080> duty<00:20:56.840> and<00:20:57.000> it's<00:20:57.120> about<00:20:57.400> it's<00:20:57.560> so<00:20:57.680> so<00:20:57.840> something<00:20:58.160> you<00:20:58.240> can<00:20:58.440> join<00:20:59.120> and<00:20:59.240> that<00:20:59.360> I<00:20:59.520> can<00:20:59.840> I<00:20:59.920> can<00:21:00.040> sort<00:21:00.200> of<00:21:00.240> see<00:21:00.320> what

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you're<00:21:00.480> saying<00:21:00.760> there,<00:21:00.880> but<00:21:01.040> like<00:21:02.040> when<00:21:02.280> when<00:21:02.480> I<00:21:02.640> when<00:21:02.840> I<00:21:02.880> look<00:21:03.560> in<00:21:03.760> the<00:21:03.840> Hebrew<00:21:04.160> Bible<00:21:05.000> and<00:21:05.720> I<00:21:05.840> see<00:21:06.000> some<00:21:06.200> of<00:21:06.320> the<00:21:06.400> stories<00:21:06.920> of<00:21:07.080> what<00:21:07.280> this<00:21:07.480> nation<00:21:07.840> got<00:21:08.040> up<00:21:08.200> to.

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Um<00:21:09.480> I<00:21:09.560> said<00:21:09.720> that<00:21:09.840> I<00:21:09.880> wanted<00:21:10.120> to<00:21:10.200> talk<00:21:10.400> about<00:21:10.640> some<00:21:10.800> of<00:21:10.880> these<00:21:11.120> stories.

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I've<00:21:11.840> been<00:21:12.080> speaking<00:21:12.560> a<00:21:12.600> lot<00:21:12.840> recently<00:21:13.400> to<00:21:13.560> Christians<00:21:14.240> about<00:21:14.560> some<00:21:14.720> of<00:21:14.840> the<00:21:15.600> Old<00:21:15.840> Testament<00:21:16.280> atrocities<00:21:17.040> is<00:21:17.120> the<00:21:17.200> label<00:21:17.480> that<00:21:17.560> would<00:21:17.680> often<00:21:17.920> be<00:21:18.320> be<00:21:18.440> put<00:21:18.600> on<00:21:18.680> them<00:21:18.840> and

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um<00:21:20.200> for<00:21:20.320> them<00:21:20.640> it's<00:21:20.800> easy<00:21:20.960> enough<00:21:21.160> for<00:21:21.240> them<00:21:21.400> to<00:21:21.560> sort<00:21:21.760> of<00:21:21.880> say,<00:21:22.040> "Well,<00:21:22.280> you<00:21:22.360> know,<00:21:22.560> Jesus<00:21:23.120> is<00:21:23.240> kind<00:21:23.440> of<00:21:23.520> a<00:21:23.560> part<00:21:23.920> two<00:21:24.240> and<00:21:24.360> it<00:21:24.440> sort<00:21:24.600> of<00:21:24.720> undoes<00:21:25.120> it<00:21:25.240> and<00:21:25.360> we<00:21:25.440> have<00:21:25.600> a<00:21:26.040> very

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special<00:21:26.520> relationship<00:21:27.160> with<00:21:27.280> these<00:21:27.440> stories."<00:21:27.920> But<00:21:28.400> I<00:21:28.480> think<00:21:28.680> you'll<00:21:28.800> have<00:21:28.920> to<00:21:29.040> answer<00:21:29.240> differently,<00:21:29.720> which<00:21:29.840> is<00:21:29.920> why<00:21:30.000> I'm<00:21:30.120> interested<00:21:30.520> to<00:21:30.640> ask<00:21:30.840> you<00:21:30.960> about<00:21:31.200> these<00:21:31.440> things.

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So,<00:21:32.840> you<00:21:32.920> know,<00:21:33.120> God<00:21:33.560> has<00:21:33.760> this<00:21:33.920> chosen<00:21:34.240> people<00:21:34.760> and<00:21:34.880> he<00:21:34.960> promises<00:21:35.400> them<00:21:35.520> a<00:21:35.600> land.

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And<00:21:37.880> that<00:21:38.040> land<00:21:38.200> is<00:21:38.280> occupied.<00:21:39.160> All<00:21:39.240> right,<00:21:39.360> there<00:21:39.440> are<00:21:39.520> people<00:21:39.760> living<00:21:40.000> there.

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And<00:21:41.000> so<00:21:41.120> God<00:21:41.320> sends<00:21:41.560> his<00:21:41.680> people<00:21:42.040> to<00:21:42.600> occupy<00:21:43.000> this<00:21:43.200> land<00:21:43.640> and<00:21:43.800> when<00:21:44.280> the<00:21:44.400> people<00:21:44.680> refuse<00:21:45.800> to<00:21:45.920> give<00:21:46.040> it<00:21:46.160> to<00:21:46.240> them,<00:21:47.080> they<00:21:47.160> end<00:21:47.280> up<00:21:47.400> getting<00:21:48.360> slaughtered.

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Men,<00:21:49.720> women,<00:21:50.000> children.<00:21:50.400> I'm<00:21:50.480> talking<00:21:50.680> about<00:21:50.800> the<00:21:50.880> Canaanites,<00:21:51.360> of<00:21:51.440> course.

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You<00:21:51.800> have<00:21:51.920> these<00:21:52.080> stories<00:21:52.480> of<00:21:53.000> the<00:21:53.640> the<00:21:53.720> Amalekites.

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You<00:21:54.440> have<00:21:54.560> the<00:21:54.640> stories<00:21:54.960> of<00:21:55.040> the<00:21:55.160> Midianites<00:21:55.760> and<00:21:56.360> and<00:21:57.440> Moses<00:21:57.920> or<00:21:58.000> his<00:21:58.120> successors<00:21:58.680> and<00:21:58.760> their<00:21:58.920> armies<00:21:59.960> are<00:22:00.080> commanded<00:22:00.680> to<00:22:01.000> march<00:22:01.280> up<00:22:01.400> to<00:22:01.520> this<00:22:01.680> land<00:22:02.120> and<00:22:02.240> told<00:22:02.400> in

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no<00:22:02.640> uncertain<00:22:02.960> terms<00:22:03.840> to<00:22:03.960> kill<00:22:04.520> men,<00:22:05.080> women,<00:22:05.800> children,<00:22:07.040> animals,<00:22:08.080> you<00:22:08.160> know,<00:22:08.360> in<00:22:08.680> um<00:22:09.760> in<00:22:09.920> Samuel,<00:22:10.520> we

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we<00:22:11.000> have<00:22:11.160> the<00:22:11.240> story<00:22:11.560> of<00:22:11.920> of<00:22:12.840> this<00:22:12.960> sort<00:22:13.120> of<00:22:13.360> this<00:22:13.560> instruction<00:22:14.040> to<00:22:14.120> slaughter<00:22:14.440> animals.

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And<00:22:16.640> when<00:22:16.800> they<00:22:16.920> keep<00:22:17.520> the<00:22:17.640> king<00:22:17.960> and<00:22:18.080> some<00:22:18.200> of<00:22:18.280> the<00:22:18.360> animals<00:22:18.720> alive,<00:22:20.160> God<00:22:20.400> says<00:22:20.840> to<00:22:21.000> Samuel,<00:22:21.400> "I<00:22:21.480> regret<00:22:21.800> that<00:22:21.920> I<00:22:21.960> ever<00:22:22.120> made<00:22:22.360> Saul<00:22:22.560> king<00:22:22.840> because<00:22:23.040> he<00:22:23.120> didn't<00:22:23.400> he<00:22:23.480> didn't

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follow<00:22:23.880> my<00:22:23.960> instructions."<00:22:24.520> It's<00:22:24.640> like<00:22:24.760> he's<00:22:24.880> been<00:22:25.000> and<00:22:25.080> he<00:22:25.160> gets<00:22:25.320> punished<00:22:25.720> for<00:22:25.840> not<00:22:26.040> killing<00:22:26.400> all<00:22:26.560> of<00:22:26.640> the<00:22:26.800> animals.

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Now,<00:22:28.400> this<00:22:28.520> idea<00:22:28.920> of<00:22:29.080> a<00:22:29.320> sort<00:22:29.520> of<00:22:29.760> chosen<00:22:30.120> people<00:22:30.480> with<00:22:30.600> a<00:22:30.640> special<00:22:31.040> duty<00:22:31.840> that<00:22:31.960> people<00:22:32.160> can<00:22:32.280> sort<00:22:32.440> of<00:22:32.520> come<00:22:32.720> along<00:22:33.000> and<00:22:33.120> say,<00:22:33.280> "Yeah,<00:22:33.480> I<00:22:33.560> like<00:22:33.800> what<00:22:33.920> you're<00:22:34.000> doing.

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I<00:22:34.280> want<00:22:34.400> to<00:22:34.480> get<00:22:34.600> on<00:22:34.680> board."<00:22:35.000> That<00:22:35.160> that<00:22:35.320> seems<00:22:36.080> pretty<00:22:36.320> fine,<00:22:36.640> but<00:22:37.960> this<00:22:38.200> idea<00:22:38.800> that<00:22:38.920> I'm<00:22:39.080> reading<00:22:39.320> in<00:22:39.400> this<00:22:39.560> text,<00:22:40.280> there's<00:22:40.440> a<00:22:40.480> chosen<00:22:40.880> people<00:22:42.000> with<00:22:42.120> their<00:22:42.240> promised

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land.<00:22:43.600> And<00:22:43.680> if<00:22:43.760> you're<00:22:43.880> not<00:22:44.040> okay<00:22:44.240> with<00:22:44.400> that,<00:22:44.560> then<00:22:44.680> you're<00:22:44.800> going<00:22:44.920> to<00:22:44.960> get<00:22:45.120> killed.

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That<00:22:46.040> that<00:22:46.200> seems<00:22:46.360> a<00:22:46.400> little<00:22:46.600> bit<00:22:46.760> more,<00:22:47.120> um,<00:22:48.040> bit<00:22:48.160> more<00:22:48.360> raw<00:22:48.640> to<00:22:48.800> me.

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I<00:22:49.200> wondered<00:22:49.440> how<00:22:49.560> you<00:22:49.680> interpret<00:22:50.200> that<00:22:50.600> that<00:22:50.800> part<00:22:51.000> of<00:22:51.080> the<00:22:51.160> chosen,<00:22:51.800> chosen<00:22:52.000> people.

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There<00:22:52.760> are,<00:22:53.000> there<00:22:53.240> are<00:22:53.280> story.<00:22:54.120> No,<00:22:54.360> there<00:22:54.480> are<00:22:54.560> multiple,<00:22:55.520> um,<00:22:55.880> really<00:22:56.240> interesting<00:22:56.840> and<00:22:56.960> important<00:22:57.280> questions<00:22:57.680> here.

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One<00:22:58.040> is,<00:22:58.640> let's<00:22:58.960> start<00:22:59.320> first<00:22:59.560> with<00:22:59.680> the<00:22:59.800> difference<00:23:00.160> between<00:23:00.360> Christianity<00:23:01.000> and<00:23:01.120> Judaism.

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Sure.<00:23:02.600> The<00:23:02.720> reason<00:23:03.040> that<00:23:03.160> Christianity<00:23:04.040> is<00:23:04.240> not,<00:23:05.600> um,<00:23:06.520> does<00:23:06.960> the<00:23:07.080> New<00:23:07.240> Testament<00:23:07.640> has,<00:23:08.280> does<00:23:08.440> not<00:23:08.600> have<00:23:08.720> stories<00:23:09.160> like<00:23:09.480> that<00:23:09.720> is

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precisely<00:23:10.480> because<00:23:10.960> it<00:23:11.040> was<00:23:11.200> born<00:23:11.440> in<00:23:11.520> the<00:23:11.600> Roman<00:23:11.840> Empire.

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So,<00:23:13.600> there<00:23:13.840> were<00:23:14.040> no<00:23:14.240> wars,<00:23:14.920> there<00:23:15.120> was<00:23:15.360> no<00:23:15.520> contention,<00:23:16.680> there<00:23:16.800> was<00:23:17.000> no<00:23:17.120> civil<00:23:17.520> legislation.

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It's<00:23:18.360> one<00:23:18.480> of<00:23:18.560> the<00:23:18.640> reasons<00:23:18.920> why<00:23:19.040> Christianity<00:23:19.600> is<00:23:19.640> such<00:23:19.880> an<00:23:20.000> internal,<00:23:21.240> um,<00:23:21.840> religion<00:23:22.320> is<00:23:22.480> because<00:23:23.440> if<00:23:23.640> you<00:23:23.760> create<00:23:24.080> a<00:23:24.120> religion<00:23:24.480> in<00:23:24.600> the<00:23:24.680> desert<00:23:25.280> like<00:23:25.480> Moses<00:23:25.960> or<00:23:26.080> like

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Muhammad,<00:23:27.160> then<00:23:27.360> your<00:23:27.520> civil<00:23:27.880> legislation<00:23:28.520> and<00:23:28.640> your<00:23:28.760> religious<00:23:29.360> legislation<00:23:30.040> are<00:23:30.240> one.

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They're<00:23:30.920> the<00:23:31.040> same.<00:23:31.520> There's<00:23:31.680> no<00:23:31.800> separation<00:23:32.280> between<00:23:32.560> church<00:23:32.800> and<00:23:32.920> state<00:23:33.520> because<00:23:33.840> you're<00:23:34.000> creating<00:23:34.480> a<00:23:34.560> religious<00:23:35.000> civilization.

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Christianity<00:23:36.960> was<00:23:37.160> spared<00:23:37.760> that<00:23:39.000> phase<00:23:39.320> of<00:23:39.440> history<00:23:40.560> and<00:23:40.960> as<00:23:41.120> a<00:23:41.200> result<00:23:41.880> Christians<00:23:43.840> didn't,<00:23:44.480> didn't

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have<00:23:45.200> civil<00:23:45.520> legislation<00:23:46.120> as<00:23:46.240> part<00:23:46.440> of<00:23:46.880> Jesus'<00:23:47.520> legislation<00:23:48.120> because<00:23:48.560> obviously<00:23:49.040> the<00:23:49.160> Roman<00:23:49.400> Empire<00:23:50.080> took<00:23:50.280> care<00:23:50.440> of<00:23:50.560> all<00:23:50.760> of<00:23:50.800> that.

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They<00:23:51.560> didn't<00:23:51.880> have<00:23:52.200> a<00:23:52.280> land<00:23:52.760> that<00:23:52.880> they<00:23:53.200> wanted<00:23:53.520> to<00:23:53.640> conquer<00:23:53.960> or<00:23:54.040> not<00:23:54.280> conquer,<00:23:54.680> although<00:23:55.200> clearly<00:23:56.280> the<00:23:56.400> revolts<00:23:56.800> against<00:23:57.120> Rome<00:23:57.440> were<00:23:57.560> at<00:23:57.680> least<00:23:57.880> in<00:23:58.000> part,<00:23:59.320> in<00:23:59.520> part

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some<00:24:00.080> of<00:24:00.200> the<00:24:00.320> toxicity<00:24:01.160> that<00:24:01.360> you<00:24:01.520> see<00:24:01.760> in<00:24:01.840> the<00:24:01.920> New<00:24:02.040> Testament<00:24:02.480> towards<00:24:02.840> Jews<00:24:03.200> were<00:24:03.320> about<00:24:04.000> the<00:24:04.120> revolts<00:24:04.480> against<00:24:04.880> Rome<00:24:05.360> and<00:24:05.560> the<00:24:05.640> anger<00:24:05.960> against<00:24:06.240> Rome.

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But<00:24:08.120> in<00:24:08.200> the<00:24:08.280> Hebrew<00:24:08.680> Bible,<00:24:09.720> you<00:24:09.840> have<00:24:09.960> an<00:24:10.080> ancient<00:24:10.440> people<00:24:11.760> and<00:24:12.600> a<00:24:12.720> chronicle<00:24:13.720> of<00:24:13.920> what<00:24:14.120> probably<00:24:14.680> happened<00:24:15.600> over<00:24:15.920> and<00:24:16.080> over

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and<00:24:16.440> over<00:24:16.680> and<00:24:16.800> over<00:24:17.040> and<00:24:17.160> over<00:24:17.400> again<00:24:17.760> with<00:24:18.000> virtually<00:24:18.520> every<00:24:18.880> ancient<00:24:19.240> people.

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Um,<00:24:20.840> I<00:24:20.960> don't<00:24:21.360> think<00:24:21.560> the<00:24:21.680> story<00:24:21.960> of<00:24:22.040> the<00:24:22.160> Israelites<00:24:22.600> is<00:24:22.720> unique<00:24:23.040> except<00:24:23.360> that<00:24:23.480> they<00:24:23.600> survived<00:24:24.600> for<00:24:24.720> thousands<00:24:25.240> and<00:24:25.600> thousands<00:24:26.000> of<00:24:26.120> years.

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Um,<00:24:27.400> but<00:24:27.520> I<00:24:27.560> think<00:24:27.720> that<00:24:27.840> that's<00:24:28.080> how<00:24:28.320> And<00:24:28.640> by<00:24:28.760> the<00:24:28.840> way,<00:24:28.920> if<00:24:29.000> you<00:24:29.080> look<00:24:29.240> in<00:24:29.280> the<00:24:29.360> book<00:24:29.520> of<00:24:29.600> Joshua,<00:24:30.640> the<00:24:31.760> actual<00:24:33.040> conquest<00:24:33.680> of<00:24:33.760> the<00:24:33.880> land<00:24:34.200> is<00:24:34.360> a<00:24:34.440> much<00:24:35.040> more

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assimilative<00:24:36.360> process<00:24:37.360> than<00:24:37.560> it<00:24:37.680> is<00:24:37.880> actual<00:24:38.840> conquering<00:24:39.320> of<00:24:39.400> the<00:24:39.520> land.

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So,<00:24:41.600> it's<00:24:41.800> almost<00:24:42.040> like<00:24:42.200> the<00:24:42.320> rhetoric<00:24:42.840> is<00:24:43.000> much<00:24:43.240> more<00:24:43.400> martial<00:24:44.440> than<00:24:44.640> the,<00:24:44.960> than<00:24:45.200> the<00:24:45.320> reality.

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But<00:24:46.400> I<00:24:46.440> think<00:24:46.640> that<00:24:46.760> this<00:24:46.920> is<00:24:47.120> precisely<00:24:47.800> because<00:24:48.440> that<00:24:48.680> was<00:24:48.840> how<00:24:49.360> Look,<00:24:49.600> I,<00:24:49.720> I'm,<00:24:50.200> I'm<00:24:50.400> not<00:24:50.680> someone<00:24:51.000> who<00:24:51.120> thinks<00:24:51.480> that<00:24:51.640> God<00:24:51.880> wrote<00:24:52.040> every<00:24:52.200> word<00:24:52.360> of<00:24:52.400> the<00:24:52.480> Bible<00:24:53.320> and<00:24:53.520> I<00:24:53.560> think

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that<00:24:53.880> this<00:24:54.040> is<00:24:54.160> exactly<00:24:54.640> how<00:24:55.440> ancient<00:24:55.840> Israelites<00:24:56.360> interpreted<00:24:57.120> their<00:24:57.440> own<00:24:58.240> mandate<00:24:59.320> was<00:25:01.040> just<00:25:01.480> like<00:25:01.640> the<00:25:01.760> tribes

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around<00:25:02.400> them<00:25:02.560> who<00:25:02.760> conquered<00:25:03.200> land<00:25:03.520> one<00:25:03.720> from<00:25:03.920> the<00:25:04.080> other,<00:25:04.800> they<00:25:05.080> conquered<00:25:05.520> as<00:25:05.720> well,<00:25:06.120> and<00:25:06.240> you<00:25:06.360> could<00:25:06.520> either<00:25:06.760> join<00:25:07.080> them<00:25:07.920> or<00:25:08.600> not<00:25:08.880> join<00:25:09.200> them<00:25:09.680> and<00:25:09.880> have<00:25:10.040> a

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war<00:25:10.560> just<00:25:10.920> as<00:25:11.320> all<00:25:11.520> subsequent<00:25:13.160> attempts<00:25:13.960> to<00:25:14.080> destroy<00:25:14.480> them<00:25:15.280> were<00:25:16.240> men,<00:25:16.520> women,<00:25:16.760> children.

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That<00:25:17.640> was<00:25:17.840> the<00:25:17.920> way<00:25:18.120> unfortunately<00:25:19.120> war<00:25:19.360> worked<00:25:19.920> often<00:25:20.280> in<00:25:20.360> the<00:25:20.480> ancient<00:25:20.800> world<00:25:21.040> and<00:25:21.200> sometimes<00:25:21.640> in<00:25:21.720> the<00:25:21.800> modern.

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But<00:25:23.320> when<00:25:23.440> we<00:25:23.600> think<00:25:23.840> of<00:25:25.240> this<00:25:25.400> nation<00:25:25.760> of<00:25:25.840> Israel<00:25:26.200> as<00:25:26.320> God's<00:25:26.600> chosen<00:25:26.960> people<00:25:27.720> with<00:25:28.120> direct<00:25:28.520> access<00:25:28.960> to<00:25:29.120> the,<00:25:29.720> to<00:25:29.800> the<00:25:29.880> commands<00:25:30.320> of<00:25:30.440> the<00:25:30.680> moral<00:25:31.040> author

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of<00:25:31.360> the<00:25:31.480> universe,<00:25:32.240> when<00:25:32.400> people<00:25:32.720> say<00:25:33.320> When<00:25:33.880> who's<00:25:34.240> we?

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Am<00:25:35.680> I<00:25:35.760> included<00:25:36.200> in<00:25:36.280> that<00:25:36.480> we?<00:25:36.680> Not,<00:25:36.880> not,<00:25:37.040> not,<00:25:37.480> not<00:25:37.680> you,<00:25:37.840> not<00:25:38.000> me,<00:25:38.280> but<00:25:38.520> but<00:25:38.760> the<00:25:39.200> Well,<00:25:39.360> the<00:25:39.440> reason<00:25:39.680> I<00:25:39.720> said<00:25:39.960> the<00:25:40.080> reason<00:25:40.320> I<00:25:40.400> say<00:25:40.600> that<00:25:40.800> is<00:25:40.920> because<00:25:41.440> I<00:25:41.560> actually<00:25:42.080> don't

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think<00:25:43.200> that<00:25:43.440> God<00:25:43.840> said<00:25:44.360> to<00:25:44.520> them<00:25:45.040> directly<00:25:45.880> kill<00:25:46.120> men,<00:25:46.320> women,<00:25:46.520> and<00:25:46.600> children.

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It's<00:25:47.960> I<00:25:48.160> think<00:25:48.360> that<00:25:48.480> the<00:25:48.560> Bible's<00:25:48.920> a<00:25:49.000> product<00:25:49.360> of<00:25:49.440> human<00:25:49.680> beings<00:25:50.720> inspired<00:25:51.360> by<00:25:51.520> God<00:25:51.800> trying<00:25:52.080> to<00:25:52.200> struggle<00:25:52.640> with<00:25:52.800> God's<00:25:53.080> meaning,<00:25:53.920> but<00:25:54.120> clearly<00:25:54.760> it<00:25:54.920> is<00:25:55.040> an<00:25:55.160> ancient<00:25:55.480> text

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from<00:25:55.960> an<00:25:56.080> ancient<00:25:56.360> people<00:25:57.080> that<00:25:57.280> intermixes<00:25:58.680> stunning<00:25:59.240> moral<00:25:59.600> insights<00:26:00.640> and<00:26:00.840> spiritual<00:26:01.400> truths<00:26:02.480> with<00:26:02.800> the<00:26:02.920> realities<00:26:03.680> of<00:26:03.840> a

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very<00:26:04.760> ancient<00:26:05.200> world.<00:26:06.200> But<00:26:06.360> of<00:26:06.480> course<00:26:07.480> points<00:26:07.760> in<00:26:07.840> the<00:26:07.920> Hebrew<00:26:08.160> Bible<00:26:08.480> we<00:26:08.640> have<00:26:09.680> the<00:26:09.800> recorded<00:26:10.560> voice<00:26:11.000> of<00:26:11.160> God<00:26:12.120> telling

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the<00:26:12.880> nation<00:26:13.120> of<00:26:13.240> Israel<00:26:13.640> to<00:26:13.760> do<00:26:14.000> what<00:26:14.200> I<00:26:14.280> would<00:26:14.440> consider<00:26:14.760> to<00:26:14.880> be<00:26:14.960> some<00:26:15.520> quite<00:26:16.560> intolerably<00:26:18.120> unethical<00:26:19.600> war<00:26:19.880> practices.

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Would<00:26:21.600> you<00:26:21.760> say<00:26:22.160> that<00:26:22.920> I<00:26:23.000> mean<00:26:23.160> you<00:26:23.240> just<00:26:23.360> said<00:26:23.480> a<00:26:23.520> moment<00:26:23.720> ago<00:26:23.880> you<00:26:23.960> don't<00:26:24.120> believe<00:26:24.360> that<00:26:24.600> the<00:26:24.720> God<00:26:24.920> wrote<00:26:25.120> every<00:26:25.320> word<00:26:25.440> of<00:26:25.520> the<00:26:25.560> Bible.

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I<00:26:26.000> think<00:26:26.240> that<00:26:26.720> of,<00:26:28.120> of<00:26:28.400> course<00:26:28.720> that<00:26:28.960> the<00:26:29.240> Hebrew<00:26:29.480> Bible<00:26:29.720> as<00:26:29.800> a<00:26:29.840> whole<00:26:30.000> shouldn't<00:26:30.200> be<00:26:30.400> treated<00:26:30.800> as<00:26:30.920> if<00:26:31.040> God<00:26:31.240> wrote<00:26:31.440> every<00:26:31.680> word,<00:26:32.080> but<00:26:32.200> those<00:26:32.400> instances<00:26:32.960> where<00:26:33.120> Well,<00:26:33.160> actually

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that's<00:26:33.640> how<00:26:33.760> the<00:26:33.840> Jewish<00:26:34.120> tradition<00:26:34.920> traditionally<00:26:35.440> saw<00:26:35.720> it<00:26:36.000> as<00:26:36.160> God<00:26:36.440> wrote<00:26:36.640> every<00:26:36.840> word.

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And<00:26:37.240> what<00:26:37.360> I'm<00:26:37.480> saying<00:26:37.840> is<00:26:38.560> the<00:26:38.680> modern<00:26:39.080> understanding<00:26:40.160> of<00:26:40.360> the<00:26:40.440> Bible<00:26:40.800> is<00:26:40.920> that<00:26:41.040> it's<00:26:41.160> written<00:26:41.360> by<00:26:41.480> human<00:26:41.760> beings.

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It<00:26:42.200> developed<00:26:42.640> over<00:26:42.800> a<00:26:42.840> long<00:26:43.080> period<00:26:43.440> of<00:26:43.520> time<00:26:44.480> and<00:26:44.960> that<00:26:45.160> some<00:26:45.360> of<00:26:45.440> their<00:26:45.640> understandings<00:26:46.360> of<00:26:46.480> what<00:26:46.640> God<00:26:46.920> wants<00:26:47.240> I<00:26:47.360> think<00:26:47.600> are<00:26:47.680> the<00:26:47.800> understandings<00:26:48.840> of<00:26:49.000> people<00:26:49.280> who

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lived<00:26:49.600> thousands<00:26:50.040> of<00:26:50.160> years<00:26:50.360> ago,<00:26:51.560> um,<00:26:51.760> and<00:26:52.560> and<00:26:53.040> I<00:26:53.160> use<00:26:54.440> the<00:26:54.600> Bible's<00:26:55.600> own<00:26:55.920> principles<00:26:56.600> to<00:26:56.720> criticize<00:26:57.280> the<00:26:57.360> Bible.

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So,<00:26:58.200> where<00:26:59.160> the<00:26:59.240> Bible<00:27:00.600> tells<00:27:01.080> us,<00:27:01.680> you<00:27:01.760> know,<00:27:02.160> God<00:27:02.440> said<00:27:02.720> these<00:27:03.000> words.

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It's<00:27:03.560> not<00:27:03.720> sort<00:27:03.840> of<00:27:03.920> a<00:27:03.960> narrative.<00:27:04.560> I<00:27:04.600> mean,<00:27:04.760> it's<00:27:04.840> not<00:27:05.040> sort<00:27:05.200> of<00:27:05.480> Right.

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Um,<00:27:06.680> even<00:27:07.240> something<00:27:07.520> like<00:27:07.680> the<00:27:07.760> Genesis<00:27:08.240> story,<00:27:08.680> like<00:27:08.880> in<00:27:09.000> the<00:27:09.080> beginning<00:27:09.680> God<00:27:09.920> created<00:27:10.200> the<00:27:10.240> heavens<00:27:10.480> and<00:27:10.560> the<00:27:10.680> earth.

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It'd<00:27:10.920> be<00:27:11.000> weird<00:27:11.240> if<00:27:11.960> if<00:27:12.080> like<00:27:12.320> God<00:27:12.960> said<00:27:13.320> those<00:27:13.640> words,<00:27:14.040> you<00:27:14.120> know,<00:27:14.240> like<00:27:14.400> I<00:27:14.440> can<00:27:14.600> sort<00:27:14.800> of<00:27:14.880> understand<00:27:15.320> that,<00:27:15.560> but<00:27:16.400> where<00:27:16.520> the<00:27:16.600> Hebrew<00:27:16.800> Bible<00:27:17.080> says,<00:27:17.480> "These,<00:27:17.760> These<00:27:17.960> are

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the<00:27:18.080> words<00:27:18.320> that<00:27:18.440> God<00:27:18.600> spoke<00:27:18.920> to<00:27:19.080> Moses,<00:27:19.480> for<00:27:19.600> example."

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Are<00:27:21.760> you<00:27:21.840> telling<00:27:22.120> me<00:27:22.280> that<00:27:22.560> you're<00:27:22.760> happy<00:27:23.080> to<00:27:23.200> sort<00:27:23.440> of<00:27:23.680> read<00:27:23.880> that<00:27:24.040> and<00:27:24.120> say,<00:27:24.280> "Well,<00:27:24.440> maybe<00:27:24.640> they<00:27:24.760> just<00:27:24.920> recorded<00:27:25.280> it<00:27:25.360> wrong.

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May-<00:27:26.040> Maybe<00:27:26.280> God<00:27:26.440> didn't<00:27:26.640> say<00:27:26.760> these<00:27:26.920> things."<00:27:27.280> at<00:27:27.400> all.

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They<00:27:27.640> recorded<00:27:28.120> it<00:27:28.200> wrong.<00:27:28.960> Um,<00:27:29.520> I,<00:27:29.960> I'm<00:27:30.120> not<00:27:30.360> a<00:27:30.400> literalist.

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Sure.<00:27:31.760> It<00:27:31.840> is<00:27:32.240> that<00:27:32.800> this<00:27:33.080> is<00:27:33.240> what<00:27:33.600> they<00:27:34.040> understood<00:27:34.880> God<00:27:35.960> to<00:27:36.120> want<00:27:36.720> of<00:27:36.960> them.

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And<00:27:38.360> I<00:27:38.480> think<00:27:39.360> that<00:27:39.640> as<00:27:39.840> a<00:27:39.920> people,<00:27:41.120> um,<00:27:41.600> who<00:27:42.040> lived<00:27:42.360> in<00:27:42.480> a<00:27:42.520> very<00:27:43.000> different<00:27:43.320> universe<00:27:43.720> from<00:27:43.880> the<00:27:43.960> universe<00:27:44.360> we<00:27:44.560> live<00:27:44.840> in,<00:27:45.560> uh,<00:27:46.120> what

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they<00:27:46.520> understood<00:27:47.240> God<00:27:47.520> to<00:27:47.640> want<00:27:47.880> of<00:27:47.960> them<00:27:48.520> is<00:27:48.680> not<00:27:48.960> at<00:27:49.080> all<00:27:49.280> what<00:27:49.480> we<00:27:49.840> always<00:27:50.280> understand<00:27:50.800> God<00:27:51.360> to<00:27:51.480> want<00:27:51.720> of<00:27:51.840> us.

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And<00:27:52.960> so,<00:27:53.480> it's<00:27:53.720> not<00:27:54.000> as<00:27:54.120> though,<00:27:54.680> "Oh<00:27:54.800> my<00:27:54.960> god,<00:27:55.160> I<00:27:55.200> got<00:27:55.360> it<00:27:55.480> wrong."

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It's<00:27:56.480> rather<00:27:56.800> that<00:27:56.960> the<00:27:57.040> Bible,<00:27:57.520> which<00:27:57.760> spans,<00:27:58.280> by<00:27:58.400> the<00:27:58.520> way,<00:27:59.440> some<00:27:59.800> thousand<00:28:00.320> years<00:28:00.560> of<00:28:00.720> writing,<00:28:01.560> um,<00:28:02.120> was<00:28:02.280> a<00:28:02.360> gradual<00:28:02.960> process,<00:28:03.440> and<00:28:03.560> you<00:28:03.640> can<00:28:03.760> even<00:28:03.960> see<00:28:04.200> inside<00:28:04.880> the

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Bible<00:28:05.800> criticism<00:28:06.440> of<00:28:06.520> the<00:28:06.600> Bible.

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That's<00:28:07.080> why<00:28:07.440> some,<00:28:08.000> some<00:28:08.240> of<00:28:08.280> the<00:28:08.400> later<00:28:08.720> writings<00:28:09.480> don't<00:28:09.760> accord<00:28:10.160> with<00:28:10.360> earlier<00:28:10.680> writings<00:28:11.160> because<00:28:11.880> this<00:28:12.120> is<00:28:12.240> a<00:28:12.320> process<00:28:12.840> of<00:28:13.360> coming<00:28:13.640> to<00:28:13.800> grips<00:28:14.120> with<00:28:14.320> an<00:28:14.480> understanding

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God,<00:28:15.480> which<00:28:15.680> takes<00:28:15.920> a<00:28:15.960> long<00:28:16.200> time,<00:28:16.560> and<00:28:16.960> and<00:28:17.240> under<00:28:17.560> duress<00:28:18.520> tends<00:28:18.840> to<00:28:18.960> be<00:28:19.120> less,<00:28:19.720> I<00:28:19.840> think,<00:28:20.800> has<00:28:21.120> less<00:28:21.360> fidelity<00:28:21.920> to<00:28:22.120> what<00:28:22.680> we<00:28:22.880> understand<00:28:23.320> to

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be<00:28:23.480> God's<00:28:23.800> will<00:28:24.600> than<00:28:25.160> when<00:28:25.400> situations<00:28:26.000> are<00:28:26.080> better.

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So,<00:28:26.840> how<00:28:26.960> do<00:28:27.040> you<00:28:27.200> specifically<00:28:27.760> interpret<00:28:28.200> these<00:28:28.400> passages?

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I<00:28:28.960> mean,<00:28:29.120> maybe<00:28:29.360> for<00:28:29.520> the,<00:28:29.680> for<00:28:29.840> the<00:28:29.920> sake<00:28:30.120> of<00:28:30.200> the<00:28:30.320> audience<00:28:30.720> and<00:28:30.840> for<00:28:30.920> the<00:28:31.000> sake<00:28:31.240> of<00:28:32.000> of<00:28:32.160> our<00:28:32.320> own<00:28:32.440> sort<00:28:32.560> of<00:28:32.640> context<00:28:33.040> here,<00:28:33.720> I,<00:28:33.840> I<00:28:33.960> can<00:28:34.080> point<00:28:34.280> to<00:28:34.320> some<00:28:34.440> directly.

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Some<00:28:35.000> of<00:28:35.080> the<00:28:35.120> ones<00:28:35.280> that<00:28:35.400> I've<00:28:35.480> been<00:28:36.000> raising<00:28:36.440> as<00:28:36.560> objections<00:28:37.000> in<00:28:37.080> my<00:28:37.160> debates<00:28:37.440> with<00:28:37.520> Christians,<00:28:37.920> for<00:28:38.000> example,<00:28:38.880> would<00:28:39.080> include<00:28:40.120> Deuteronomy<00:28:40.560> chapter<00:28:40.840> 20,<00:28:42.040> uh,<00:28:42.120> verses

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10<00:28:42.640> onwards.<00:28:43.200> When<00:28:43.400> you<00:28:43.480> march<00:28:43.760> up<00:28:43.880> to<00:28:43.960> attack<00:28:44.200> a<00:28:44.280> people,<00:28:45.720> uh,<00:28:45.840> to<00:28:45.960> attack<00:28:46.200> a<00:28:46.240> city,<00:28:46.560> make<00:28:46.760> its<00:28:46.880> people<00:28:47.200> an,<00:28:47.480> an<00:28:47.600> offer<00:28:47.800> of<00:28:47.920> peace.

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If<00:28:48.400> they<00:28:48.520> accept<00:28:48.920> and<00:28:49.040> open<00:28:49.280> their<00:28:49.400> gates,<00:28:50.320> all<00:28:50.520> of<00:28:50.600> the<00:28:50.680> people<00:28:51.360> in<00:28:51.520> it<00:28:51.680> shall<00:28:51.840> be<00:28:51.920> subject<00:28:52.320> to<00:28:52.400> forced<00:28:52.760> labor<00:28:53.120> and<00:28:53.240> shall<00:28:53.400> work<00:28:53.680> for<00:28:53.800> you.

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If<00:28:54.120> they<00:28:54.200> refuse<00:28:54.640> to<00:28:54.720> make<00:28:54.920> peace<00:28:55.200> with<00:28:55.400> you,<00:28:55.680> bearing<00:28:55.880> in<00:28:55.920> mind<00:28:56.040> that<00:28:56.160> peace<00:28:56.360> is<00:28:56.600> forced<00:28:56.920> labor,<00:28:57.400> [Mhm].

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and<00:28:58.240> engage<00:28:58.520> you<00:28:58.560> in<00:28:58.640> battle,<00:28:59.040> lay<00:28:59.200> siege<00:28:59.640> to<00:28:59.720> that<00:28:59.920> city.

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When<00:29:00.840> the<00:29:00.920> Lord<00:29:01.080> your<00:29:01.200> God<00:29:01.360> delivers<00:29:01.640> it<00:29:01.720> into<00:29:01.880> your<00:29:02.000> hand,<00:29:02.360> put<00:29:02.640> to<00:29:02.720> the<00:29:02.840> sword<00:29:03.240> all<00:29:03.480> the<00:29:03.560> men<00:29:03.760> in<00:29:03.880> it.

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As<00:29:04.440> for<00:29:04.520> the<00:29:04.600> women,<00:29:04.920> the<00:29:05.040> children,<00:29:05.520> and<00:29:05.640> the<00:29:05.720> livestock,<00:29:06.280> and<00:29:06.400> everything<00:29:06.680> else<00:29:06.800> in<00:29:06.880> the<00:29:06.960> city,<00:29:07.240> you<00:29:07.360> may<00:29:07.440> take<00:29:07.640> these<00:29:07.760> as<00:29:07.880> plunder<00:29:08.320> for<00:29:08.440> yourselves,<00:29:09.360> and<00:29:09.480> you<00:29:09.560> may

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use<00:29:09.960> the<00:29:10.080> plunder<00:29:10.360> the<00:29:10.480> Lord<00:29:10.720> has<00:29:10.840> given<00:29:11.120> you<00:29:11.480> from<00:29:11.680> your<00:29:11.800> enemies.

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Uh,<00:29:13.040> uh,<00:29:13.160> it,<00:29:13.360> it<00:29:13.480> then<00:29:13.640> continues,<00:29:14.080> however,<00:29:14.360> in<00:29:14.440> the<00:29:14.520> nations<00:29:15.680> that<00:29:15.840> the<00:29:15.920> Lord<00:29:16.160> God<00:29:16.360> has<00:29:16.480> given<00:29:16.760> you<00:29:17.160> as<00:29:17.320> an<00:29:17.400> inheritance,<00:29:18.560> do<00:29:18.680> not<00:29:18.880> leave<00:29:19.040> alive<00:29:19.320> anything<00:29:19.600> that<00:29:19.720> breathes.

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Completely<00:29:20.840> destroy<00:29:21.200> them.<00:29:21.960> The<00:29:22.040> Hittites,<00:29:22.560> Amorites,<00:29:23.040> Canaanites,<00:29:23.880> so<00:29:24.160> on,<00:29:24.880> as<00:29:25.040> the<00:29:25.120> Lord<00:29:25.320> your<00:29:25.440> God<00:29:25.600> has<00:29:25.680> commanded<00:29:26.120> you.

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Otherwise,<00:29:27.160> they'll<00:29:27.280> teach<00:29:27.520> you<00:29:27.600> to<00:29:27.680> follow<00:29:27.920> the<00:29:28.040> detestable<00:29:28.560> things<00:29:28.920> that<00:29:29.040> they<00:29:29.120> do<00:29:29.280> in<00:29:29.360> worshipping<00:29:29.760> their<00:29:29.880> gods<00:29:30.360> and<00:29:30.680> sin<00:29:30.840> against<00:29:31.120> the<00:29:31.200> Lord<00:29:31.360> your<00:29:31.440> God.

00:29:31.760 --> 00:29:40.080
them<00:29:31.960> exactly<00:29:32.520> the<00:29:32.640> way<00:29:32.840> I<00:29:32.920> just<00:29:33.120> said,<00:29:33.520> which<00:29:33.760> is<00:29:34.160> that<00:29:34.400> was<00:29:34.600> how<00:29:35.000> an<00:29:35.200> ancient<00:29:35.600> people<00:29:36.400> in<00:29:36.720> war<00:29:37.320> behaved,<00:29:37.960> and<00:29:38.120> they<00:29:38.360> understood<00:29:38.920> that<00:29:39.120> to<00:29:39.200> be<00:29:39.320> God's<00:29:39.640> will.

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But,<00:29:40.120> do<00:29:40.200> you<00:29:40.240> think<00:29:40.400> God<00:29:40.560> issued<00:29:40.880> this<00:29:41.000> command?<00:29:41.520> I<00:29:41.560> mean,<00:29:42.640> I<00:29:42.800> don't<00:29:43.000> know<00:29:43.080> how<00:29:43.200> many<00:29:43.360> times<00:29:44.000> I've<00:29:44.200> said<00:29:44.480> several<00:29:44.960> times,<00:29:45.560> no.

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I<00:29:46.600> think<00:29:46.800> that<00:29:46.920> human<00:29:47.200> beings<00:29:47.640> wrote<00:29:47.880> that<00:29:48.080> book,<00:29:49.160> inspired<00:29:49.840> sometimes<00:29:50.280> by<00:29:50.440> God,<00:29:51.120> sometimes<00:29:51.720> not,<00:29:51.960> sometimes<00:29:53.720> recording<00:29:54.200> exactly<00:29:54.640> what

00:29:54.800 --> 00:29:57.280
ancient<00:29:55.080> people<00:29:55.320> said.<00:29:55.880> But,<00:29:56.000> no,<00:29:56.240> I<00:29:56.320> don't<00:29:56.600> think<00:29:56.760> God<00:29:56.960> spoke.

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I'm<00:29:57.440> not<00:29:57.680> a<00:29:57.760> literalist.<00:29:58.680> I<00:29:58.760> don't<00:29:59.040> think<00:29:59.160> God<00:29:59.360> spoke<00:29:59.600> those<00:29:59.800> words.

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:08.120
I<00:30:00.040> think<00:30:00.280> human<00:30:00.560> beings<00:30:00.920> wrote<00:30:01.120> the<00:30:01.200> Bible,<00:30:01.880> and<00:30:02.040> they<00:30:02.200> often<00:30:02.880> in<00:30:03.080> the<00:30:03.160> Bible<00:30:03.520> instantiated<00:30:04.480> what<00:30:04.760> their<00:30:05.080> desires<00:30:05.760> were<00:30:06.360> and<00:30:06.520> projected<00:30:07.000> them<00:30:07.160> onto<00:30:07.360> God,<00:30:07.680> which<00:30:07.880> people

00:30:08.120 --> 00:30:10.400
have<00:30:08.240> a<00:30:08.280> tendency<00:30:08.760> to<00:30:08.880> do.<00:30:09.320> Okay,<00:30:09.560> so<00:30:09.760> I'm,<00:30:09.920> I'm<00:30:10.040> fine<00:30:10.200> with<00:30:10.320> that.

00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:12.720
And<00:30:10.480> I'm,<00:30:10.800> I'm<00:30:10.960> sorry<00:30:11.160> if<00:30:11.320> I<00:30:11.560> make<00:30:11.720> you<00:30:11.760> feel<00:30:11.880> like<00:30:12.000> you're<00:30:12.080> repeating<00:30:12.360> yourself.

00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:22.120
I'm,<00:30:12.840> I'm,<00:30:13.080> I'm<00:30:13.200> trying<00:30:13.400> to<00:30:13.480> get<00:30:13.600> to<00:30:13.680> grips<00:30:14.040> with<00:30:15.000> the<00:30:15.080> people<00:30:15.600> your<00:30:15.840> assumption<00:30:16.560> I,<00:30:16.720> I<00:30:16.800> think<00:30:17.040> that<00:30:17.160> the,<00:30:17.360> the<00:30:17.560> disconnect<00:30:18.160> here<00:30:18.440> is<00:30:19.240> that<00:30:20.240> you,<00:30:20.960> um,

00:30:22.120 --> 00:30:25.800
you<00:30:23.280> represent,<00:30:24.520> uh,<00:30:24.800> tradition.

00:30:25.800 --> 00:30:35.720
Not<00:30:26.120> you,<00:30:26.600> but<00:30:27.120> you're<00:30:27.320> representing<00:30:27.960> a<00:30:28.000> tradition<00:30:28.960> that<00:30:29.360> doesn't,<00:30:30.840> um,<00:30:31.400> allow<00:30:32.080> for<00:30:33.520> the<00:30:35.120> critical

00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:41.000
study<00:30:36.080> of<00:30:36.200> the<00:30:36.280> Bible<00:30:37.000> that<00:30:37.200> starts<00:30:37.840> with<00:30:38.000> the<00:30:38.080> assumption,<00:30:38.560> which<00:30:38.720> is<00:30:38.800> what<00:30:38.960> I<00:30:39.000> start<00:30:39.360> with,<00:30:39.560> that<00:30:39.720> human<00:30:39.960> beings<00:30:40.280> wrote<00:30:40.440> this<00:30:40.640> book.

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:48.280
Yeah,<00:30:41.200> sure.<00:30:41.560> Okay.<00:30:42.080> And<00:30:42.360> once<00:30:42.640> you<00:30:42.720> start<00:30:43.000> with<00:30:43.080> that<00:30:43.240> assumption,<00:30:44.040> you<00:30:44.360> read<00:30:44.560> the<00:30:44.640> passages<00:30:45.200> very<00:30:45.440> differently<00:30:46.320> than<00:30:46.440> if<00:30:46.560> you<00:30:46.680> start<00:30:46.920> with<00:30:47.040> the<00:30:47.120> assumption<00:30:47.760> that

00:30:48.280 --> 00:30:52.040
God<00:30:48.520> wrote<00:30:48.720> this<00:30:48.840> book.<00:30:49.040> Now<00:30:49.160> you<00:30:49.200> don't<00:30:49.320> have<00:30:49.440> to<00:30:49.480> explain<00:30:49.840> to<00:30:49.920> me<00:30:50.000> why<00:30:50.240> God<00:30:50.480> did<00:30:50.640> those<00:30:50.800> terrible<00:30:51.160> things.

00:30:52.040 --> 00:31:00.360
I<00:30:52.160> just<00:30:52.360> don't<00:30:52.520> make<00:30:52.640> that<00:30:52.800> assumption.<00:30:53.400> I<00:30:53.480> think<00:30:53.680> what<00:30:53.840> I<00:30:53.880> want<00:30:54.000> to<00:30:54.080> know<00:30:54.280> is<00:30:54.520> is<00:30:55.120> your<00:30:56.560> opinion<00:30:57.240> on<00:30:58.040> I<00:30:58.080> mean<00:30:58.280> you<00:30:58.560> said<00:30:58.760> that<00:30:58.880> this<00:30:59.040> is<00:30:59.120> people<00:31:00.240> sort

00:31:00.360 --> 00:31:05.800
of<00:31:00.440> investing<00:31:00.960> their<00:31:01.200> own<00:31:01.720> motivations<00:31:02.360> and<00:31:02.480> ideas<00:31:03.240> into<00:31:03.520> the<00:31:03.600> words<00:31:03.840> of<00:31:03.920> God.

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The<00:31:05.960> people<00:31:06.400> and<00:31:06.560> and<00:31:06.680> maybe<00:31:06.880> we<00:31:07.000> just<00:31:07.120> don't<00:31:07.280> know,<00:31:07.440> but<00:31:07.520> the<00:31:07.600> people<00:31:07.840> who<00:31:08.000> did<00:31:08.320> write<00:31:08.520> these<00:31:08.720> words<00:31:08.960> down,<00:31:09.160> the<00:31:09.240> people<00:31:09.400> who<00:31:09.480> did<00:31:09.640> sort<00:31:09.760> of<00:31:10.040> commit<00:31:10.280> these<00:31:10.400> words<00:31:10.600> to

00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:18.400
traditional<00:31:11.120> to<00:31:11.200> paper<00:31:11.600> eventually,<00:31:12.920> do<00:31:13.120> you<00:31:13.200> think<00:31:13.400> they<00:31:13.520> were<00:31:13.720> at<00:31:13.840> least<00:31:14.760> honestly<00:31:15.200> attempting<00:31:16.120> to<00:31:16.240> say<00:31:16.480> this<00:31:16.640> is<00:31:16.720> what<00:31:16.840> we<00:31:16.960> actually<00:31:17.280> think<00:31:17.600> God<00:31:17.840> said?

00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:24.400
Or<00:31:18.520> do<00:31:18.600> you<00:31:18.720> think<00:31:18.960> that<00:31:19.080> it<00:31:19.160> was<00:31:19.320> more<00:31:19.560> an<00:31:19.640> attempt<00:31:20.000> to<00:31:20.080> represent<00:31:20.600> their<00:31:20.840> own<00:31:21.480> I<00:31:21.520> mean<00:31:21.640> I,<00:31:22.000> I<00:31:22.080> can't<00:31:22.360> know<00:31:22.480> for<00:31:22.640> sure,<00:31:23.000> but<00:31:23.120> I<00:31:23.200> think<00:31:23.440> that<00:31:23.600> they<00:31:23.760> were.

00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:28.800
I<00:31:24.520> think<00:31:24.760> that<00:31:25.080> this<00:31:25.320> is<00:31:25.480> what<00:31:25.640> they<00:31:25.800> really<00:31:26.280> believed<00:31:27.600> God<00:31:27.920> wanted<00:31:28.240> them<00:31:28.400> to<00:31:28.520> do.

00:31:28.800 --> 00:31:34.640
And<00:31:29.000> part<00:31:29.200> of<00:31:29.280> the<00:31:29.360> reason<00:31:29.600> that<00:31:29.760> I<00:31:29.800> believe<00:31:30.080> that<00:31:30.240> is<00:31:30.360> because<00:31:30.720> we<00:31:30.880> see<00:31:31.120> it,<00:31:31.440> it<00:31:31.640> that<00:31:32.000> same<00:31:32.400> sort<00:31:32.680> of<00:31:32.760> belief<00:31:33.520> persist<00:31:34.000> today.

00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:42.880
Sure.<00:31:34.880> That<00:31:35.000> people<00:31:35.400> really<00:31:35.800> believe<00:31:36.240> what<00:31:36.360> God<00:31:36.600> wants<00:31:36.880> of<00:31:37.000> me<00:31:37.120> is<00:31:37.240> to<00:31:37.400> destroy<00:31:37.800> these<00:31:38.000> people<00:31:38.840> and<00:31:40.000> to<00:31:40.640> take<00:31:40.880> what<00:31:41.000> they<00:31:41.160> have<00:31:41.360> because<00:31:41.640> it<00:31:41.720> should<00:31:41.880> be<00:31:42.000> mine.

00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:48.320
So,<00:31:43.440> I<00:31:43.520> think<00:31:43.720> that<00:31:43.840> that's<00:31:44.040> a<00:31:44.120> very<00:31:44.760> powerful<00:31:45.520> and<00:31:45.680> enduring<00:31:46.760> human<00:31:47.680> desire.

00:31:48.320 --> 00:31:56.760
The<00:31:48.520> difference<00:31:49.000> in<00:31:49.120> part<00:31:49.520> is<00:31:50.840> that<00:31:51.040> the<00:31:51.240> again,<00:31:51.760> that<00:31:51.920> the<00:31:52.000> Bible<00:31:52.560> it<00:31:52.720> still<00:31:53.240> exists<00:31:54.520> and<00:31:54.760> that<00:31:55.040> we<00:31:55.200> see<00:31:55.560> it<00:31:56.320> laid

00:31:56.760 --> 00:32:05.840
out<00:31:57.120> so<00:31:57.280> clearly.<00:31:58.320> Um,<00:31:59.120> the,<00:32:00.040> the<00:32:00.240> reason<00:32:00.640> that<00:32:00.800> the<00:32:00.880> Bible<00:32:01.400> is<00:32:01.600> the<00:32:01.720> Bible<00:32:02.200> is<00:32:02.320> because<00:32:03.400> right<00:32:03.880> next<00:32:04.280> to<00:32:04.440> such<00:32:05.120> objectionable

00:32:05.840 --> 00:32:14.200
passages<00:32:06.720> are<00:32:06.840> passages<00:32:07.360> not<00:32:07.520> only<00:32:07.680> of<00:32:07.760> great<00:32:08.000> moral<00:32:08.320> beauty,<00:32:09.040> but<00:32:09.400> of<00:32:09.760> these<00:32:09.960> kind<00:32:10.240> of<00:32:10.320> transcendent<00:32:10.920> principles<00:32:11.920> that<00:32:12.120> we<00:32:12.280> have<00:32:12.960> absorbed<00:32:13.640> so<00:32:13.840> much

00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:17.880
that<00:32:14.320> we<00:32:14.440> can<00:32:14.640> criticize<00:32:15.360> the<00:32:15.440> Bible<00:32:16.000> based<00:32:16.400> on<00:32:16.520> the<00:32:16.600> Bible's<00:32:17.040> own<00:32:17.160> principles.

00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:27.960
Mhm.<00:32:19.200> So,<00:32:20.440> people,<00:32:21.840> um,<00:32:23.280> attempting<00:32:23.880> to<00:32:23.960> record<00:32:24.320> what<00:32:24.440> they,<00:32:24.680> they<00:32:24.840> think<00:32:25.200> God<00:32:25.440> might<00:32:25.600> have<00:32:25.720> said,<00:32:26.800> um,

00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:33.960
but<00:32:28.200> really<00:32:28.720> probably<00:32:29.280> it<00:32:29.440> just<00:32:29.600> in<00:32:29.800> imparting<00:32:30.440> their<00:32:30.600> own<00:32:31.080> values<00:32:31.440> and<00:32:31.520> ideas<00:32:32.400> into<00:32:32.680> the<00:32:32.760> words<00:32:33.000> of<00:32:33.080> God.

00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:41.120
I<00:32:34.080> suppose<00:32:34.360> the<00:32:34.440> question<00:32:34.840> that<00:32:34.960> people<00:32:36.320> really<00:32:36.720> want<00:32:36.920> answered<00:32:37.240> when<00:32:37.360> they<00:32:37.440> find<00:32:37.720> this<00:32:37.840> in<00:32:37.920> scripture,<00:32:38.360> people<00:32:38.560> who<00:32:38.640> are<00:32:38.720> troubled<00:32:39.080> by<00:32:39.200> this<00:32:39.520> is<00:32:39.680> like,<00:32:39.880> well,<00:32:40.760> however

00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:47.240
this<00:32:41.280> did<00:32:41.480> end<00:32:41.640> up<00:32:41.760> in<00:32:41.800> scripture,<00:32:42.120> whether<00:32:42.320> it<00:32:42.400> was<00:32:42.600> really<00:32:42.800> the<00:32:42.920> word<00:32:43.080> of<00:32:43.160> God<00:32:43.320> or<00:32:43.400> not,<00:32:43.640> is<00:32:43.760> this<00:32:43.920> the<00:32:44.000> kind<00:32:44.240> of<00:32:44.360> thing<00:32:44.560> that<00:32:44.720> God<00:32:45.360> could<00:32:45.680> in<00:32:45.800> principle<00:32:46.720> have<00:32:46.960> said?

00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:54.200
Because<00:32:47.520> if<00:32:47.640> the<00:32:47.760> answer<00:32:48.000> to<00:32:48.080> that<00:32:48.200> is<00:32:48.320> no,<00:32:49.120> then<00:32:49.240> the<00:32:49.320> people<00:32:49.560> who<00:32:49.720> wrote<00:32:49.920> this<00:32:50.080> down<00:32:50.480> trying<00:32:50.960> to<00:32:51.080> record<00:32:51.400> what<00:32:51.520> God<00:32:51.760> said<00:32:52.000> must<00:32:52.240> have<00:32:52.360> made<00:32:52.520> a<00:32:52.560> mistake.

00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:59.760
Yes,<00:32:54.520> oh,<00:32:54.760> I<00:32:54.800> think<00:32:55.000> they<00:32:55.120> clearly<00:32:55.520> Oh,<00:32:55.600> well,<00:32:56.120> I,<00:32:56.400> I<00:32:56.480> think<00:32:56.680> a<00:32:56.720> mistake<00:32:57.200> is<00:32:57.320> probably<00:32:57.720> not<00:32:57.920> the,<00:32:58.200> the<00:32:58.320> word<00:32:58.640> that<00:32:58.760> I<00:32:58.880> would<00:32:59.080> use.

00:32:59.760 --> 00:33:08.680
If<00:32:59.920> you<00:33:00.040> ask<00:33:00.280> me,<00:33:00.840> is,<00:33:01.160> is<00:33:01.400> the<00:33:01.520> God<00:33:01.920> that<00:33:02.200> I<00:33:02.600> understand<00:33:03.440> as<00:33:03.640> God,<00:33:04.240> which<00:33:04.520> is<00:33:05.160> already<00:33:06.120> in<00:33:06.280> some<00:33:06.480> ways<00:33:06.640> a<00:33:06.680> ridiculous<00:33:07.120> statement<00:33:07.440> to<00:33:07.520> make<00:33:07.720> because<00:33:08.560> to

00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:17.480
understand<00:33:09.200> God<00:33:09.680> is,<00:33:11.000> um,<00:33:11.680> you<00:33:11.760> know,<00:33:11.840> I<00:33:11.880> sometimes<00:33:12.280> say<00:33:12.400> to,<00:33:12.800> to<00:33:12.920> the<00:33:13.280> to<00:33:13.480> our,<00:33:14.120> our<00:33:14.320> teens,<00:33:14.800> like<00:33:14.960> when<00:33:15.120> you<00:33:15.200> were<00:33:15.320> two,<00:33:15.640> could<00:33:15.800> you<00:33:15.880> understand<00:33:16.320> a<00:33:16.360> 15-year-old?

00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:22.760
And<00:33:17.640> obviously<00:33:17.920> you<00:33:18.000> can't.<00:33:18.440> And<00:33:18.520> the<00:33:18.880> distance<00:33:19.360> between<00:33:19.680> God<00:33:19.920> and<00:33:20.000> human<00:33:20.200> beings<00:33:20.680> in<00:33:20.800> my<00:33:20.960> tradition<00:33:21.320> is<00:33:21.400> much<00:33:21.600> greater<00:33:21.840> than<00:33:21.920> that<00:33:22.040> between<00:33:22.320> a<00:33:22.360> two-year-old<00:33:22.640> and<00:33:22.720> a

00:33:22.760 --> 00:33:30.400
15-year-old.<00:33:23.640> So,<00:33:23.840> when<00:33:23.960> I<00:33:24.040> say<00:33:24.320> what<00:33:24.560> I<00:33:24.680> understand<00:33:25.200> as<00:33:25.320> God,<00:33:25.760> it's<00:33:26.040> kind<00:33:26.280> of<00:33:26.360> silly,<00:33:26.840> but<00:33:27.080> nonetheless,<00:33:28.160> the<00:33:28.280> God<00:33:28.560> as<00:33:28.680> I<00:33:28.800> understand<00:33:29.320> God<00:33:29.560> would<00:33:29.680> never<00:33:29.920> say<00:33:30.080> such<00:33:30.320> a

00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:38.960
thing.<00:33:31.160> And<00:33:32.120> of<00:33:32.400> course<00:33:33.280> the<00:33:33.400> people<00:33:33.760> who<00:33:33.960> wrote<00:33:34.200> it,<00:33:34.320> who<00:33:34.560> really<00:33:34.880> believed<00:33:35.240> they<00:33:35.400> were<00:33:35.520> expressing<00:33:36.080> the<00:33:36.160> highest<00:33:36.600> values<00:33:37.680> that<00:33:37.880> they<00:33:38.040> knew<00:33:38.560> and

00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:45.160
believed<00:33:39.520> that<00:33:39.680> God,<00:33:40.400> that<00:33:40.600> God<00:33:40.880> had<00:33:41.080> given<00:33:41.400> them<00:33:41.600> those<00:33:41.800> values<00:33:42.240> and<00:33:42.360> that<00:33:42.560> voice,<00:33:43.320> I<00:33:43.440> think<00:33:43.680> they<00:33:43.840> were<00:33:44.160> completely<00:33:44.680> sincere.

00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:51.360
I<00:33:45.280> find<00:33:45.560> it<00:33:45.680> very<00:33:45.960> hard<00:33:46.120> to<00:33:46.200> believe<00:33:46.880> that<00:33:47.040> people<00:33:47.360> wrote<00:33:47.560> stuff<00:33:47.800> like<00:33:47.960> that<00:33:48.280> and<00:33:48.440> thought,<00:33:48.720> "Ha,<00:33:48.880> we're<00:33:49.040> going<00:33:49.160> to<00:33:49.240> put<00:33:49.440> one<00:33:49.600> over<00:33:49.800> on<00:33:49.880> the<00:33:49.960> future<00:33:50.600> and<00:33:50.720> tell<00:33:50.880> them<00:33:51.040> God

00:33:51.360 --> 00:33:59.440
said,<00:33:51.920> you<00:33:52.040> know."<00:33:52.280> But,<00:33:52.440> but<00:33:53.120> to,<00:33:53.360> to<00:33:53.520> be<00:33:53.640> clear,<00:33:53.840> I<00:33:53.880> want<00:33:54.000> to<00:33:54.080> make<00:33:54.160> sure<00:33:54.280> I'm<00:33:55.240> sure<00:33:55.400> I'm<00:33:55.520> understanding<00:33:55.920> you<00:33:56.000> correctly,<00:33:57.800> in<00:33:58.000> all<00:33:58.200> of<00:33:58.280> the<00:33:58.400> instances<00:33:58.920> across<00:33:59.120> the<00:33:59.200> Hebrew

00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:02.480
Bible<00:33:59.760> where<00:33:59.920> the<00:34:00.080> these<00:34:00.280> kinds<00:34:00.600> of<00:34:00.680> issues<00:34:01.000> are<00:34:01.280> these<00:34:01.480> kinds<00:34:01.680> of<00:34:01.760> commands<00:34:02.080> are<00:34:02.160> issues.

00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:04.640
to<00:34:02.600> address<00:34:03.120> specific<00:34:03.680> issues.<00:34:03.920> Okay,<00:34:04.120> sure,<00:34:04.360> sure.

00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:10.600
So,<00:34:05.000> too.<00:34:05.680> But<00:34:05.800> if<00:34:05.920> you're<00:34:06.040> talking<00:34:06.400> about<00:34:07.200> massacres<00:34:07.840> of<00:34:07.960> innocents,<00:34:08.520> do<00:34:08.720> I<00:34:08.840> believe<00:34:09.240> that<00:34:09.399> that's<00:34:09.600> what<00:34:09.760> God<00:34:10.040> wants<00:34:10.280> of<00:34:10.399> us?

00:34:10.600 --> 00:34:19.280
No,<00:34:10.840> I<00:34:10.919> don't.<00:34:11.440> Right.<00:34:11.720> And<00:34:11.919> so,<00:34:13.440> uh<00:34:13.840> how<00:34:14.040> would<00:34:14.159> you<00:34:14.280> approach<00:34:14.800> the<00:34:14.919> criticism<00:34:15.440> that<00:34:15.560> people<00:34:15.840> listening<00:34:16.159> to<00:34:16.240> this<00:34:16.399> might<00:34:16.560> then<00:34:16.720> have<00:34:17.120> that<00:34:17.800> that<00:34:17.960> seems<00:34:18.240> to<00:34:18.320> imply<00:34:18.720> that

00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:25.320
when<00:34:19.440> they're<00:34:19.520> reading<00:34:19.760> the<00:34:19.840> Hebrew<00:34:20.080> Bible,<00:34:20.440> they<00:34:20.520> need<00:34:20.639> to<00:34:20.720> keep<00:34:20.879> in<00:34:21.000> mind<00:34:21.399> that<00:34:22.159> some<00:34:22.440> of<00:34:22.560> the<00:34:22.639> things<00:34:22.919> that<00:34:23.000> are<00:34:23.080> recorded<00:34:23.520> in<00:34:23.600> there<00:34:24.240> are<00:34:24.720> or<00:34:24.879> you<00:34:24.960> didn't<00:34:25.120> like<00:34:25.240> the

00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:29.240
word<00:34:25.480> mistaken,<00:34:26.120> but<00:34:26.960> not<00:34:27.159> really<00:34:27.399> what<00:34:27.520> God<00:34:27.720> said<00:34:27.960> basically.

00:34:29.240 --> 00:34:34.639
agree<00:34:29.520> with<00:34:29.679> that.<00:34:29.760> And<00:34:29.800> and<00:34:29.879> does<00:34:30.000> Does<00:34:30.159> undermine<00:34:30.560> our<00:34:30.639> trust<00:34:30.960> of<00:34:31.040> the<00:34:31.120> Hebrew<00:34:31.360> Bible<00:34:31.720> as<00:34:31.800> a

00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:41.280
If<00:34:35.159> if<00:34:35.520> what<00:34:35.760> you<00:34:35.879> need<00:34:36.480> to<00:34:36.600> believe<00:34:37.120> in<00:34:37.200> the<00:34:37.280> Bible<00:34:37.919> is<00:34:38.120> a<00:34:38.159> literal<00:34:38.600> understanding<00:34:39.040> of<00:34:39.120> the<00:34:39.200> Bible,<00:34:39.600> it<00:34:39.800> absolutely<00:34:40.440> undermines<00:34:40.960> it.

00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:48.120
No<00:34:41.440> question.<00:34:42.200> And<00:34:42.360> this<00:34:42.520> is,<00:34:42.679> by<00:34:42.800> the<00:34:42.919> way,<00:34:43.480> a<00:34:43.520> process<00:34:44.000> that<00:34:44.120> I've<00:34:44.240> seen<00:34:44.399> again<00:34:44.639> and<00:34:44.760> again<00:34:45.000> and<00:34:45.080> again<00:34:45.639> when<00:34:45.760> people<00:34:46.040> start<00:34:46.320> to<00:34:46.440> study,<00:34:46.800> for<00:34:46.919> example,<00:34:47.320> modern<00:34:47.600> criticism

00:34:48.120 --> 00:34:56.520
of<00:34:48.200> the<00:34:48.320> Bible.<00:34:49.480> Where<00:34:49.919> you<00:34:50.159> start<00:34:50.520> to<00:34:50.639> see<00:34:51.240> literary<00:34:51.720> tropes<00:34:52.440> and<00:34:53.520> that<00:34:53.840> that<00:34:54.120> different<00:34:54.440> parts<00:34:54.639> of<00:34:54.679> the<00:34:54.760> Bible<00:34:55.120> use<00:34:55.320> different<00:34:55.840> levels<00:34:56.360> of

00:34:56.520 --> 00:35:05.040
Hebrew<00:34:56.919> language.<00:34:57.480> So<00:34:57.600> that,<00:34:57.720> for<00:34:57.840> example,<00:34:58.680> um<00:34:59.080> when<00:34:59.240> we<00:34:59.360> were<00:34:59.440> testing<00:34:59.800> the<00:34:59.880> microphones,<00:35:00.440> you<00:35:00.680> you<00:35:00.880> started<00:35:01.320> to<00:35:02.200> uh<00:35:02.280> to<00:35:03.040> uh<00:35:03.120> repeat<00:35:03.400> one<00:35:03.520> of<00:35:03.600> Shakespeare's<00:35:04.040> sonnets.

00:35:05.040 --> 00:35:08.720
And<00:35:05.400> and<00:35:05.680> anybody<00:35:06.120> listening<00:35:06.440> could<00:35:06.640> tell,<00:35:07.120> "Oh,<00:35:07.240> that's<00:35:07.520> not<00:35:07.720> something<00:35:08.040> that<00:35:08.160> he<00:35:08.280> made<00:35:08.520> up."

00:35:08.720 --> 00:35:11.400
Right.<00:35:08.800> Yeah.<00:35:09.080> Yeah.<00:35:09.240> Yeah.<00:35:09.520> And<00:35:09.640> the<00:35:09.720> same<00:35:10.080> thing<00:35:10.320> happens<00:35:10.640> in<00:35:10.720> the<00:35:10.800> Hebrew<00:35:11.040> Bible.

00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:14.440
You<00:35:11.480> see<00:35:11.680> levels<00:35:12.080> of<00:35:12.160> different<00:35:12.640> of<00:35:12.880> different<00:35:13.360> ages<00:35:13.680> of<00:35:13.760> Hebrew.

00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:18.160
So<00:35:14.680> once<00:35:15.000> that<00:35:15.200> happens,<00:35:15.640> people<00:35:16.000> all<00:35:16.160> of<00:35:16.240> a<00:35:16.320> sudden,<00:35:16.680> there's<00:35:16.880> a<00:35:16.960> sort<00:35:17.160> of<00:35:17.240> shattering<00:35:17.760> effect.

00:35:18.160 --> 00:35:26.840
Like,<00:35:18.360> "Oh<00:35:18.480> my<00:35:18.640> god,<00:35:19.480> I<00:35:19.680> thought<00:35:20.080> this<00:35:20.320> was<00:35:21.200> exactly<00:35:21.960> what<00:35:22.160> God<00:35:22.440> said,<00:35:23.120> and<00:35:23.320> now<00:35:23.960> I<00:35:24.120> see<00:35:24.400> it<00:35:24.680> as<00:35:24.840> partly<00:35:25.160> a<00:35:25.240> product<00:35:25.600> of<00:35:25.680> the<00:35:25.760> human<00:35:26.640> or

00:35:26.840 --> 00:35:31.080
maybe<00:35:27.120> fully<00:35:27.400> a<00:35:27.480> product<00:35:27.840> of<00:35:27.920> the<00:35:28.000> human<00:35:28.480> aspiration<00:35:29.200> for<00:35:29.360> God,<00:35:29.600> but<00:35:29.720> not<00:35:29.840> what<00:35:29.960> God<00:35:30.240> said."

00:35:31.080 --> 00:35:39.280
And<00:35:31.280> then<00:35:31.480> you<00:35:31.600> have<00:35:31.800> to<00:35:31.840> have<00:35:31.960> a<00:35:32.040> different<00:35:32.360> kind<00:35:32.640> of<00:35:33.000> of<00:35:34.120> religious<00:35:34.760> approach<00:35:35.720> from<00:35:35.920> the<00:35:36.040> approach<00:35:36.480> of<00:35:36.560> someone<00:35:37.000> whom<00:35:37.400> I'm<00:35:37.600> calling<00:35:37.960> a<00:35:38.000> literalist.

00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:45.320
Yeah,<00:35:39.680> absolutely.<00:35:40.480> Yeah,<00:35:40.600> it's<00:35:40.720> interesting.<00:35:41.840> Uh<00:35:42.040> I<00:35:42.120> mean,<00:35:42.680> I<00:35:42.720> don't<00:35:42.920> speak<00:35:43.200> Hebrew<00:35:43.800> and<00:35:44.240> so<00:35:44.640> read<00:35:44.960> Hebrew.

00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:53.600
And<00:35:45.440> so<00:35:46.440> when<00:35:46.600> I<00:35:46.680> learned<00:35:47.240> that<00:35:48.120> a<00:35:48.200> lot<00:35:48.360> of<00:35:48.400> the<00:35:48.480> Hebrew<00:35:48.720> Bible<00:35:49.000> does<00:35:49.200> sort<00:35:49.360> of<00:35:49.480> switch<00:35:50.760> as<00:35:50.920> if<00:35:51.120> you<00:35:51.200> were<00:35:51.320> reading<00:35:51.560> an<00:35:51.640> English<00:35:51.920> text<00:35:52.320> that<00:35:52.520> suddenly<00:35:53.200> switched<00:35:53.520> to

00:35:53.600 --> 00:35:59.760
speaking<00:35:53.920> in<00:35:54.040> Shakespearean<00:35:54.600> English,<00:35:55.360> you<00:35:55.480> would<00:35:55.600> just<00:35:55.760> be<00:35:55.880> struck<00:35:56.400> by<00:35:56.560> this<00:35:56.760> knowledge<00:35:57.120> that<00:35:57.280> you're<00:35:57.440> reading<00:35:57.680> an<00:35:57.760> amalgamation<00:35:58.440> of<00:35:58.840> of<00:35:58.960> texts<00:35:59.280> and<00:35:59.440> authors.

00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:06.160
But<00:36:00.040> because<00:36:00.160> it<00:36:00.240> all<00:36:00.320> gets<00:36:00.480> translated<00:36:01.000> into<00:36:01.600> one<00:36:01.840> English<00:36:02.160> text<00:36:02.360> for<00:36:02.440> me<00:36:02.520> to<00:36:02.640> read,<00:36:03.280> that<00:36:03.400> doesn't<00:36:03.640> come<00:36:03.800> through,<00:36:04.200> which<00:36:04.400> is<00:36:04.520> which<00:36:04.680> is<00:36:04.800> fascinating.

00:36:06.160 --> 00:36:11.720
It<00:36:06.240> does<00:36:06.440> seem<00:36:06.640> to<00:36:06.720> me,<00:36:06.880> I<00:36:06.920> mean,<00:36:07.200> the<00:36:07.320> Hebrew<00:36:07.600> Bible,<00:36:07.880> maybe<00:36:08.160> we<00:36:08.280> should<00:36:09.520> spend<00:36:09.840> a<00:36:09.960> just<00:36:10.160> a<00:36:10.200> moment<00:36:10.680> spelling<00:36:11.040> out<00:36:11.200> what<00:36:11.360> it<00:36:11.480> is.

00:36:11.720 --> 00:36:16.520
I<00:36:11.760> mean,<00:36:12.000> there<00:36:12.160> are<00:36:12.240> words<00:36:12.560> thrown<00:36:12.800> around,<00:36:13.440> Hebrew<00:36:13.680> Bible,<00:36:14.400> Tanakh,<00:36:15.240> Pentateuch,<00:36:16.240> Okay.

00:36:16.520 --> 00:36:20.240
So,<00:36:17.280> the<00:36:17.400> Hebrew<00:36:17.640> Bible<00:36:18.000> is<00:36:18.120> what<00:36:18.320> called<00:36:18.560> a<00:36:18.640> step<00:36:19.160> canon.

00:36:20.240 --> 00:36:23.840
By<00:36:20.400> which<00:36:20.640> I<00:36:20.720> mean,<00:36:21.520> it<00:36:21.680> has<00:36:21.920> five<00:36:22.200> books,<00:36:22.560> the<00:36:22.680> Torah.

00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:27.240
Um<00:36:24.200> and<00:36:24.400> those<00:36:24.680> are<00:36:24.920> considered<00:36:25.360> the<00:36:25.440> most<00:36:26.160> important.

00:36:27.240 --> 00:36:36.320
Then<00:36:27.520> there<00:36:27.760> are<00:36:28.280> Nevi'im,<00:36:28.800> which<00:36:28.960> means<00:36:29.160> the<00:36:29.240> prophets,<00:36:30.240> but<00:36:30.400> it<00:36:30.520> actually<00:36:30.800> includes<00:36:31.120> the<00:36:31.240> historical<00:36:31.800> books<00:36:32.120> like<00:36:32.760> Joshua,<00:36:33.480> Judges,<00:36:34.560> Samuel,<00:36:35.560> Kings,

00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:44.560
all<00:36:36.480> of<00:36:36.560> those<00:36:36.840> books,<00:36:37.160> and<00:36:37.360> also<00:36:38.280> the<00:36:38.400> prophets<00:36:38.880> that<00:36:39.040> everyone<00:36:39.600> has<00:36:40.240> everyone<00:36:40.880> who's<00:36:41.040> biblically<00:36:41.520> literate<00:36:41.840> has<00:36:42.000> heard<00:36:42.200> of,<00:36:42.640> Ezekiel,<00:36:43.240> Jeremiah,<00:36:44.480> um

00:36:44.560 --> 00:36:47.200
Isaiah,<00:36:44.960> so<00:36:45.240> on,<00:36:45.400> and<00:36:45.560> the<00:36:45.680> 12<00:36:46.000> minor<00:36:46.280> prophets.

00:36:47.200 --> 00:36:50.640
Um<00:36:47.840> and<00:36:48.160> then<00:36:48.440> there<00:36:48.560> are<00:36:48.680> what<00:36:48.800> are<00:36:48.880> called<00:36:49.080> the<00:36:49.200> writings,<00:36:49.680> the<00:36:49.800> Ketuvim.

00:36:50.640 --> 00:37:00.080
And<00:36:50.760> those<00:36:50.920> are<00:36:51.120> all<00:36:51.320> the<00:36:51.480> other<00:36:51.640> books.<00:36:52.400> They're<00:36:53.040> Daniel,<00:36:54.200> Jonah,<00:36:55.600> Ruth,<00:36:56.360> Esther,<00:36:57.160> on<00:36:57.400> and<00:36:57.560> on,<00:36:57.840> Proverbs,<00:36:58.600> Psalms,<00:36:59.160> Job.

00:37:00.080 --> 00:37:03.640
Um<00:37:00.280> and<00:37:00.480> so<00:37:01.120> that's<00:37:01.400> why<00:37:01.560> it's<00:37:01.840> Torah,<00:37:02.480> Nevi'im,<00:37:03.120> Ketuvim.

00:37:03.640 --> 00:37:05.880
It's<00:37:03.800> called<00:37:04.040> Tanakh<00:37:05.000> in<00:37:05.160> Hebrew.

00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:14.000
And<00:37:07.200> and<00:37:07.400> the<00:37:07.480> only<00:37:07.640> reason<00:37:07.800> we<00:37:07.880> refer<00:37:08.120> to<00:37:08.240> it<00:37:08.320> as<00:37:08.440> the<00:37:08.560> Hebrew<00:37:08.840> Bible<00:37:09.240> is<00:37:09.400> because<00:37:10.680> that<00:37:10.960> distinguishes<00:37:11.720> it<00:37:12.520> Jews<00:37:12.880> don't<00:37:13.120> obviously<00:37:13.560> like<00:37:13.960> to

00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:17.000
call<00:37:14.200> it<00:37:14.280> the<00:37:14.440> Old<00:37:14.680> Testament<00:37:15.160> because<00:37:15.600> that<00:37:15.760> implies<00:37:16.080> there's<00:37:16.280> a<00:37:16.320> new<00:37:16.560> one.

00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:21.600
Yeah,<00:37:17.160> yeah,<00:37:17.320> yeah.<00:37:17.520> But<00:37:17.680> but<00:37:17.840> they<00:37:18.040> but<00:37:18.200> the<00:37:18.280> Hebrew<00:37:18.520> Bible<00:37:19.280> is<00:37:19.480> what<00:37:19.600> Christians<00:37:19.960> would<00:37:20.040> call<00:37:20.280> the<00:37:20.400> Old<00:37:20.520> Testament.

00:37:21.600 --> 00:37:28.200
And<00:37:21.849> it's<00:37:22.098> made<00:37:22.348> up<00:37:22.597> of<00:37:22.846> different<00:37:23.095> parts.<00:37:23.345> Exactly.<00:37:23.594> And<00:37:23.843> I'm<00:37:24.092> interested<00:37:24.342> in<00:37:24.591> this<00:37:24.840> because<00:37:25.089> I<00:37:25.338> speak<00:37:25.588> a<00:37:25.837> lot<00:37:26.086> about<00:37:26.335> the<00:37:26.585> genre<00:37:26.834> of<00:37:27.083> scripture<00:37:27.332> and<00:37:27.582> the<00:37:27.831> genre<00:37:28.080> of

00:37:28.200 --> 00:37:31.440
different<00:37:28.840> books<00:37:29.240> within<00:37:29.600> the<00:37:29.720> sort<00:37:29.880> of<00:37:29.960> biblical<00:37:30.440> canon.

00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:34.800
And<00:37:31.600> so<00:37:31.800> a<00:37:31.880> moment<00:37:32.200> ago<00:37:32.440> when<00:37:32.600> you<00:37:32.720> said,<00:37:33.080> "Well,<00:37:33.200> look,<00:37:33.400> you<00:37:33.480> know,<00:37:33.560> I'm<00:37:33.640> not<00:37:33.800> a<00:37:33.840> biblical<00:37:34.240> literalist.

00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:39.400
I<00:37:34.960> don't<00:37:35.240> read<00:37:35.520> this<00:37:37.000> taking<00:37:37.400> every<00:37:37.600> single<00:37:37.880> word<00:37:38.160> as<00:37:38.240> if<00:37:38.320> it<00:37:38.400> came<00:37:38.600> out<00:37:38.720> of<00:37:38.800> God's<00:37:39.040> mouth."

00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:43.320
But<00:37:39.520> it<00:37:39.600> seems<00:37:39.880> to<00:37:40.000> me<00:37:40.120> that<00:37:40.440> there<00:37:40.600> are<00:37:40.640> different<00:37:40.880> intentions<00:37:41.600> with<00:37:41.720> different<00:37:42.000> genres<00:37:42.320> of<00:37:42.400> different<00:37:42.720> texts.

00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:48.920
I<00:37:43.440> agree.<00:37:43.800> So<00:37:43.840> for<00:37:43.960> example,<00:37:44.880> when<00:37:45.040> I<00:37:45.080> read<00:37:45.280> the<00:37:45.320> book<00:37:45.480> of<00:37:45.560> Genesis,<00:37:46.160> I<00:37:46.240> think<00:37:46.520> I'm<00:37:46.840> dealing<00:37:47.160> with<00:37:47.400> obvious<00:37:48.040> mythology.

00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:53.480
Uh<00:37:49.000> that's<00:37:49.240> not<00:37:49.400> that's<00:37:49.560> not<00:37:49.680> an<00:37:49.760> insult.<00:37:50.320> I<00:37:50.440> mean<00:37:50.640> to<00:37:50.720> say<00:37:51.120> it's<00:37:51.480> a<00:37:51.560> genre<00:37:51.880> of<00:37:52.000> text<00:37:52.320> of<00:37:52.440> mythology.

00:37:53.480 --> 00:37:57.840
When<00:37:53.600> I<00:37:53.680> read<00:37:53.920> something<00:37:54.240> like<00:37:55.040> Exodus,<00:37:55.640> it<00:37:55.800> seems<00:37:56.080> to<00:37:56.120> be<00:37:56.240> more<00:37:56.720> historical.

00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:04.440
Um<00:37:58.200> but<00:37:58.400> certainly<00:37:58.800> when<00:37:59.080> there's<00:37:59.280> a<00:37:59.320> part<00:37:59.640> of<00:37:59.760> the<00:38:00.640> the<00:38:00.840> textual<00:38:01.280> canon<00:38:01.640> which<00:38:02.160> you<00:38:02.360> say<00:38:02.800> you<00:38:02.920> just<00:38:03.080> said<00:38:03.200> it<00:38:03.280> contains<00:38:03.600> the<00:38:03.680> histories.

00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:12.880
Right.<00:38:04.560> Right.<00:38:05.480> The<00:38:05.520> fact<00:38:05.720> that<00:38:05.800> there's<00:38:05.960> a<00:38:06.000> distinguishably<00:38:07.960> sort<00:38:08.160> of<00:38:08.960> historical<00:38:10.000> set<00:38:10.280> of<00:38:10.400> texts<00:38:11.440> says<00:38:11.680> to<00:38:11.800> me<00:38:11.880> that<00:38:12.040> when<00:38:12.160> you're<00:38:12.280> reading<00:38:12.600> those

00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:19.560
texts,<00:38:13.880> it<00:38:14.000> would<00:38:14.120> make<00:38:14.320> sense<00:38:14.640> to<00:38:14.760> say,<00:38:15.000> "Well,<00:38:15.200> well,<00:38:15.400> in<00:38:15.720> in<00:38:15.800> this<00:38:15.960> instance<00:38:16.280> we<00:38:16.360> should<00:38:16.600> be<00:38:17.400> more<00:38:17.600> literal<00:38:17.960> at<00:38:18.040> least<00:38:18.280> in<00:38:18.360> the<00:38:18.440> sense<00:38:18.760> of<00:38:18.880> thinking<00:38:19.200> that<00:38:19.280> this<00:38:19.440> is

00:38:19.560 --> 00:38:23.320
attempting<00:38:19.920> to<00:38:20.000> to<00:38:20.440> actual<00:38:20.720> history."<00:38:21.160> Cuz<00:38:21.320> when<00:38:21.480> when<00:38:21.600> you<00:38:21.680> say<00:38:21.800> biblical<00:38:22.160> literalism<00:38:23.000> that's<00:38:23.160> true.

00:38:23.320 --> 00:38:26.160
For<00:38:23.440> example,<00:38:23.680> I<00:38:23.720> wrote<00:38:23.880> a<00:38:23.920> book<00:38:24.040> about<00:38:24.280> David,<00:38:24.800> for<00:38:24.880> example.

00:38:26.160 --> 00:38:33.000
When<00:38:26.360> you<00:38:26.520> read<00:38:26.960> the<00:38:27.080> book<00:38:27.440> when<00:38:27.600> you<00:38:27.720> read<00:38:27.920> the<00:38:28.000> story<00:38:28.240> of<00:38:28.320> David<00:38:28.640> in<00:38:28.720> Samuel,<00:38:29.400> it's<00:38:29.680> very<00:38:30.240> close<00:38:31.200> to<00:38:31.320> modern<00:38:31.680> histories.

00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:41.560
Now,<00:38:33.240> it<00:38:33.440> also<00:38:33.840> obviously<00:38:34.400> involves<00:38:34.880> God<00:38:35.080> as<00:38:35.200> a<00:38:35.240> character<00:38:35.920> in<00:38:36.080> that<00:38:36.240> book,<00:38:37.120> but<00:38:37.320> nonetheless,<00:38:38.360> it<00:38:38.640> feels<00:38:39.120> I<00:38:39.200> agree<00:38:39.480> with<00:38:39.640> you<00:38:39.760> very<00:38:40.080> different<00:38:40.480> from<00:38:40.680> reading<00:38:41.080> Abraham's

00:38:41.560 --> 00:38:45.600
story<00:38:42.360> and<00:38:42.600> much<00:38:42.960> closer<00:38:43.440> to<00:38:43.560> what<00:38:43.760> we<00:38:43.960> understand<00:38:44.560> as<00:38:44.720> a<00:38:44.760> biography.

00:38:45.600 --> 00:38:53.840
Right,<00:38:45.960> sure.<00:38:46.480> Yeah,<00:38:46.720> and<00:38:46.920> and<00:38:47.080> so<00:38:48.280> when<00:38:48.600> you<00:38:48.720> say<00:38:49.760> that<00:38:50.200> when<00:38:50.360> when<00:38:50.480> you're<00:38:50.600> reading<00:38:50.840> a<00:38:50.880> a<00:38:50.960> book<00:38:51.160> that's<00:38:51.440> more<00:38:51.680> obviously<00:38:52.120> historical,<00:38:53.000> when<00:38:53.160> you<00:38:53.240> say<00:38:53.440> well<00:38:53.640> I

00:38:53.840 --> 00:39:00.360
I<00:38:54.240> I<00:38:54.320> don't<00:38:54.560> read<00:38:54.720> it<00:38:54.800> as<00:38:54.920> a<00:38:55.000> literalist,<00:38:55.560> what<00:38:55.680> does<00:38:55.760> it<00:38:55.880> mean<00:38:56.120> to<00:38:56.320> read<00:38:57.440> a<00:38:57.520> historical<00:38:58.360> text<00:38:59.040> as<00:38:59.200> a<00:38:59.240> non-literalist?

00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:03.800
Uh<00:39:00.560> well,<00:39:00.880> there<00:39:01.080> are<00:39:01.240> two<00:39:01.800> there<00:39:02.000> are<00:39:02.120> I<00:39:02.240> think<00:39:02.600> two<00:39:02.800> parts.

00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:12.920
I'm<00:39:03.920> not<00:39:04.120> sure<00:39:04.720> which<00:39:05.120> one<00:39:06.200> um<00:39:07.320> which<00:39:07.760> I'm<00:39:07.920> not<00:39:08.080> sure<00:39:08.240> which<00:39:08.400> would<00:39:08.520> be<00:39:08.640> your<00:39:08.800> follow-up<00:39:09.240> question<00:39:09.600> to<00:39:09.720> this,<00:39:09.920> but<00:39:10.080> I<00:39:10.160> will<00:39:10.320> say<00:39:11.000> if<00:39:11.160> the<00:39:11.240> follow-up<00:39:11.640> question<00:39:12.080> is

00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:18.960
if<00:39:13.080> it's<00:39:13.240> a<00:39:13.320> historical<00:39:13.880> text<00:39:14.160> and<00:39:14.240> God<00:39:14.480> speaks,<00:39:14.840> does<00:39:14.960> that<00:39:15.160> give<00:39:15.280> it<00:39:15.360> more<00:39:15.520> credibility<00:39:16.160> than<00:39:16.320> if<00:39:16.440> it's<00:39:16.560> a<00:39:16.600> mythological<00:39:17.280> text<00:39:17.560> and<00:39:17.640> God<00:39:17.840> speaks,<00:39:18.160> I<00:39:18.240> would<00:39:18.400> say<00:39:18.520> no.

00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:26.040
Okay.<00:39:19.920> But<00:39:20.040> if<00:39:20.160> you're<00:39:20.280> asking<00:39:21.160> is<00:39:21.400> it<00:39:21.520> more<00:39:21.720> likely<00:39:22.160> that<00:39:22.320> it<00:39:22.400> records<00:39:22.840> actual<00:39:23.280> historical<00:39:23.800> events,<00:39:24.440> my<00:39:24.680> answer<00:39:25.080> would<00:39:25.280> be<00:39:25.400> just<00:39:25.760> that.

00:39:26.040 --> 00:39:35.560
It<00:39:26.160> is<00:39:26.360> more<00:39:26.640> likely.<00:39:27.440> Is<00:39:27.720> it<00:39:28.360> But<00:39:28.600> are<00:39:29.000> But<00:39:29.480> But<00:39:29.760> did,<00:39:30.400> for<00:39:30.520> example,<00:39:30.960> the<00:39:31.080> court<00:39:31.320> historian<00:39:32.040> of<00:39:32.200> David,<00:39:32.640> who<00:39:32.800> wrote<00:39:33.000> the<00:39:33.080> book<00:39:33.240> of<00:39:33.600> the<00:39:33.680> books<00:39:33.920> of<00:39:34.040> Samuel,

00:39:35.560 --> 00:39:42.960
was<00:39:36.000> he<00:39:36.280> as<00:39:36.520> exercised<00:39:37.360> as<00:39:37.520> a<00:39:37.560> modern<00:39:37.960> historian<00:39:38.640> about<00:39:38.960> whether<00:39:39.320> in<00:39:39.440> fact<00:39:39.680> the<00:39:39.760> dialogue<00:39:40.880> was<00:39:41.720> exactly<00:39:42.400> right?

00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:45.640
I<00:39:43.120> think<00:39:43.560> probably<00:39:44.000> not.<00:39:45.000> So.

00:39:45.640 --> 00:39:53.800
How<00:39:45.760> do<00:39:45.840> you<00:39:45.880> interpret<00:39:46.240> the<00:39:46.280> book<00:39:46.400> of<00:39:46.520> Job?<00:39:47.280> Job<00:39:47.840> Job<00:39:48.520> uh<00:39:49.000> I<00:39:49.080> mean<00:39:50.000> I<00:39:50.160> consider<00:39:50.560> it<00:39:50.680> to<00:39:50.760> be<00:39:51.680> probably<00:39:52.080> in<00:39:52.160> the<00:39:52.240> category<00:39:52.760> of<00:39:53.120> myth.

00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:58.480
I<00:39:53.880> don't<00:39:54.040> know<00:39:54.120> if<00:39:54.480> if<00:39:54.640> you<00:39:54.760> wouldn't<00:39:55.160> like<00:39:55.440> that<00:39:55.720> sort<00:39:55.880> of<00:39:56.360> that<00:39:56.560> genre<00:39:57.160> delineation.

00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:06.800
Um<00:39:59.400> but<00:39:59.520> I<00:39:59.560> mean<00:40:00.480> it<00:40:00.600> reads<00:40:00.840> to<00:40:00.960> me<00:40:01.240> most<00:40:01.480> people<00:40:01.760> will<00:40:01.920> be<00:40:02.040> familiar<00:40:02.520> with<00:40:02.720> the<00:40:02.800> story<00:40:03.360> if<00:40:03.600> if<00:40:03.760> not<00:40:04.000> the<00:40:04.400> the<00:40:04.760> the<00:40:04.840> dialogues<00:40:05.360> that<00:40:05.480> make<00:40:05.640> up<00:40:05.760> the<00:40:06.320> the<00:40:06.680> the

00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:15.320
bulk<00:40:07.120> of<00:40:07.200> the<00:40:07.320> middle<00:40:08.240> of<00:40:08.360> sort<00:40:08.560> of<00:40:09.080> this<00:40:10.000> council<00:40:11.600> of<00:40:11.960> this<00:40:12.160> like<00:40:12.320> divine<00:40:12.760> council<00:40:13.360> and<00:40:13.560> and<00:40:13.680> the<00:40:13.800> accuser<00:40:14.320> comes<00:40:14.600> along<00:40:14.800> identified

00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:24.400
as<00:40:15.480> Satan.<00:40:16.600> Um<00:40:18.000> And<00:40:19.040> And<00:40:19.160> they<00:40:19.240> sort<00:40:19.400> of<00:40:19.480> have<00:40:19.640> this<00:40:19.800> bet<00:40:20.080> over<00:40:20.280> this<00:40:20.400> guy,<00:40:20.560> Job,<00:40:20.920> this<00:40:21.040> very<00:40:21.280> devout<00:40:22.560> individual<00:40:23.240> who<00:40:23.960> worships

00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:27.800
God,<00:40:24.680> and<00:40:24.880> Satan<00:40:25.200> says,<00:40:25.440> "Well,<00:40:25.840> you<00:40:25.920> know,<00:40:26.120> he<00:40:26.280> only<00:40:26.440> worships<00:40:26.800> you<00:40:26.880> because<00:40:27.080> you're<00:40:27.160> so<00:40:27.320> good<00:40:27.520> to<00:40:27.600> him."

00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:33.520
And<00:40:27.920> God<00:40:28.120> essentially<00:40:28.640> over<00:40:29.040> a<00:40:29.840> series<00:40:30.120> of<00:40:30.200> stages<00:40:30.560> gives<00:40:30.760> him<00:40:31.000> the<00:40:31.680> the<00:40:31.800> ability<00:40:32.120> to<00:40:32.200> just<00:40:32.440> wreck<00:40:32.720> Job's<00:40:33.040> life.

00:40:33.520 --> 00:40:38.360
Right.<00:40:33.920> And<00:40:34.160> And<00:40:34.400> his<00:40:34.560> like<00:40:35.080> wife<00:40:35.360> dies,<00:40:35.680> kids<00:40:35.960> die,<00:40:36.880> house<00:40:37.520> everything<00:40:37.720> doesn't<00:40:38.000> die.

00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:46.480
Sorry.<00:40:38.560> Kids<00:40:38.800> Kids<00:40:38.960> die.<00:40:39.360> Right.<00:40:40.240> Everything<00:40:40.880> just<00:40:41.040> sort<00:40:41.160> of<00:40:41.280> like<00:40:41.480> gets<00:40:41.760> taken<00:40:42.080> from<00:40:42.200> him<00:40:42.440> and<00:40:42.600> destroyed,<00:40:43.360> and<00:40:43.480> he<00:40:43.600> spends<00:40:44.960> this<00:40:46.000> the<00:40:46.080> majority<00:40:46.400> of

00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:51.360
the<00:40:46.560> book,<00:40:46.800> in<00:40:46.920> fact,<00:40:47.240> just<00:40:47.480> like<00:40:47.960> speaking<00:40:48.360> with<00:40:48.480> his<00:40:48.600> friends,<00:40:49.040> and<00:40:49.200> they're<00:40:49.360> saying,<00:40:49.560> "Well,<00:40:49.840> you<00:40:49.960> must<00:40:50.200> have<00:40:50.320> sinned<00:40:50.640> against<00:40:51.000> God."

00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:58.760
Or<00:40:51.440> maybe,<00:40:51.800> you<00:40:51.880> know,<00:40:52.880> and<00:40:52.960> eventually<00:40:54.440> God<00:40:54.760> finally<00:40:56.200> gives<00:40:56.520> Job<00:40:56.880> this<00:40:57.080> audience.

00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:06.240
And<00:40:58.880> instead<00:40:59.240> of<00:40:59.320> explaining<00:41:00.000> why<00:41:00.200> it's<00:41:00.360> happened,<00:41:01.360> instead<00:41:01.800> of<00:41:02.640> you<00:41:02.760> know,<00:41:03.320> giving<00:41:03.520> him<00:41:03.680> any<00:41:03.840> kind<00:41:04.000> of<00:41:04.080> justification<00:41:04.840> for<00:41:04.920> the<00:41:05.000> behaviors<00:41:05.400> of<00:41:05.480> Satan,<00:41:05.800> he<00:41:05.880> just<00:41:06.080> says,

00:41:06.240 --> 00:41:10.880
"Well,<00:41:06.400> who<00:41:06.520> the<00:41:06.600> hell<00:41:06.760> are<00:41:06.840> you?"<00:41:07.400> Yeah.<00:41:08.040> You<00:41:08.080> know,<00:41:08.200> "Who<00:41:08.360> is<00:41:08.440> this<00:41:08.640> that<00:41:08.760> darkeneth<00:41:09.160> counsel<00:41:09.480> by<00:41:09.600> words<00:41:09.840> without<00:41:10.080> knowledge?"

00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:19.120
You<00:41:11.000> know,<00:41:11.520> and<00:41:11.760> And<00:41:11.880> Job<00:41:12.160> is<00:41:12.360> is<00:41:12.520> seemingly<00:41:13.000> so<00:41:13.200> terrified<00:41:13.920> by<00:41:14.080> this<00:41:15.160> that<00:41:15.280> he<00:41:15.440> sort<00:41:15.640> of<00:41:16.720> instantly<00:41:17.240> realizes<00:41:17.760> that<00:41:17.880> it<00:41:17.920> was<00:41:18.040> a<00:41:18.080> stupid<00:41:18.560> thing<00:41:18.760> to<00:41:18.880> even

00:41:19.120 --> 00:41:22.240
ask.<00:41:20.240> And<00:41:20.400> repents<00:41:20.800> in<00:41:20.880> dust<00:41:21.120> and<00:41:21.240> ashes.

00:41:22.240 --> 00:41:28.000
The<00:41:22.400> irony<00:41:22.720> of<00:41:22.800> the<00:41:22.880> story<00:41:23.200> for<00:41:23.360> me<00:41:23.800> is<00:41:23.960> that<00:41:24.160> the<00:41:24.320> audience<00:41:24.720> is<00:41:24.880> told<00:41:26.040> why<00:41:26.200> this<00:41:26.360> has<00:41:26.480> happened<00:41:26.760> to<00:41:26.840> Job.

00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:32.640
You<00:41:28.040> know,<00:41:28.120> we're<00:41:28.320> told<00:41:28.520> exactly<00:41:29.040> why<00:41:29.200> this<00:41:29.360> is<00:41:29.480> happening.<00:41:29.880> And<00:41:30.000> yet<00:41:30.160> when<00:41:30.320> Job<00:41:30.680> says,<00:41:30.960> "Why<00:41:31.120> is<00:41:31.200> this<00:41:31.320> happening,<00:41:31.920> Lord?"

00:41:32.640 --> 00:41:36.520
God<00:41:32.840> says,<00:41:33.000> "Well,<00:41:33.320> how<00:41:33.520> the<00:41:33.560> hell<00:41:33.760> do<00:41:33.880> you<00:41:33.960> think<00:41:34.200> you<00:41:34.320> could<00:41:34.480> even<00:41:34.720> possibly<00:41:35.160> understand?"

00:41:36.520 --> 00:41:39.120
And<00:41:36.600> yet<00:41:36.720> as<00:41:36.840> a<00:41:36.920> reader,<00:41:37.320> we're<00:41:37.440> sort<00:41:37.600> of<00:41:37.680> being<00:41:37.800> told<00:41:38.040> what<00:41:38.120> the<00:41:38.200> reason<00:41:38.520> is.

00:41:39.120 --> 00:41:47.000
And<00:41:39.240> so<00:41:39.400> it<00:41:39.560> seems<00:41:39.880> to<00:41:39.960> me<00:41:40.080> a<00:41:40.200> lot<00:41:40.360> of<00:41:40.480> atheists<00:41:40.840> read<00:41:41.000> the<00:41:41.120> story<00:41:41.480> as<00:41:41.720> like<00:41:42.840> God<00:41:43.000> sort<00:41:43.160> of<00:41:43.240> toying<00:41:43.720> with<00:41:43.880> Job<00:41:44.680> and<00:41:44.840> being<00:41:45.480> sort<00:41:45.680> of<00:41:45.760> the<00:41:45.840> evil<00:41:46.160> one<00:41:46.280> in<00:41:46.360> the<00:41:46.400> story,<00:41:46.640> the<00:41:46.720> bad

00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:54.040
guy.<00:41:47.320> And<00:41:47.440> then<00:41:47.560> when<00:41:47.720> Job<00:41:48.160> quite,<00:41:48.920> you<00:41:48.960> know,<00:41:49.720> justifiably<00:41:50.440> asks<00:41:50.800> for<00:41:50.920> a<00:41:50.960> response,<00:41:51.880> God<00:41:52.080> says,<00:41:52.280> "Well,<00:41:52.800> who<00:41:52.880> the<00:41:52.960> hell<00:41:53.080> are<00:41:53.160> you?"

00:41:54.040 --> 00:42:01.280
So,<00:41:55.480> in<00:41:55.640> order<00:41:55.880> to<00:41:56.000> give<00:41:56.160> you<00:41:56.320> a<00:41:56.480> proper<00:41:56.880> answer,<00:41:57.880> um<00:41:58.760> I<00:41:59.000> I<00:41:59.080> have<00:41:59.240> to<00:41:59.320> make<00:41:59.640> two<00:42:00.280> literary<00:42:00.760> distinctions.

00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:09.400
One<00:42:01.480> is<00:42:01.600> that<00:42:02.320> most<00:42:03.240> biblical<00:42:04.120> scholars<00:42:04.760> think,<00:42:05.480> modern<00:42:05.760> biblical<00:42:06.120> scholars,<00:42:06.760> think<00:42:06.920> that<00:42:07.040> the<00:42:07.160> prologue<00:42:07.600> and<00:42:07.680> the<00:42:07.800> epilogue<00:42:08.240> were<00:42:08.360> written<00:42:08.720> after.

00:42:09.400 --> 00:42:15.960
Right.<00:42:09.720> And<00:42:09.840> the<00:42:09.920> poetry<00:42:10.680> is<00:42:10.880> actually<00:42:11.920> And<00:42:12.160> the<00:42:12.240> character<00:42:12.760> of<00:42:12.880> Job<00:42:13.280> was<00:42:13.440> a<00:42:13.480> character<00:42:13.920> that<00:42:14.040> was<00:42:14.200> known<00:42:14.520> in<00:42:14.600> the<00:42:14.720> ancient<00:42:15.040> Near<00:42:15.280> East.

00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:19.360
That<00:42:16.160> is<00:42:16.520> a<00:42:16.640> suffering<00:42:17.200> person<00:42:17.560> who<00:42:17.680> suffers<00:42:18.120> unjustly.

00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:29.240
Um<00:42:19.920> and<00:42:20.080> so<00:42:20.320> the<00:42:20.440> Bible<00:42:21.200> takes<00:42:21.520> this<00:42:21.680> character<00:42:22.160> and<00:42:22.280> tries<00:42:22.560> to<00:42:22.680> give<00:42:22.800> the<00:42:22.920> biblical<00:42:23.320> answer<00:42:24.240> and<00:42:25.680> I<00:42:25.840> think<00:42:26.160> that<00:42:26.320> the<00:42:26.400> biblical<00:42:26.840> answer<00:42:27.280> actually<00:42:28.480> um

00:42:29.240 --> 00:42:36.120
is<00:42:29.480> not<00:42:29.960> exactly<00:42:30.680> the<00:42:30.840> one<00:42:31.160> that<00:42:31.360> is<00:42:31.560> usually<00:42:32.160> assumed,<00:42:32.680> which<00:42:32.920> is<00:42:33.640> Job,<00:42:34.000> you're<00:42:34.120> an<00:42:34.240> idiot,<00:42:34.520> you<00:42:34.600> can't<00:42:34.920> understand.

00:42:36.120 --> 00:42:42.720
And<00:42:36.240> the<00:42:36.320> reason<00:42:36.680> I<00:42:36.760> say<00:42:36.920> that<00:42:37.080> in<00:42:37.200> part<00:42:38.440> it's<00:42:38.880> more<00:42:39.080> complicated,<00:42:39.760> but<00:42:40.360> to<00:42:40.520> give<00:42:40.840> to<00:42:41.560> to<00:42:41.680> put<00:42:41.840> a<00:42:41.880> point<00:42:42.240> on<00:42:42.360> it.

00:42:42.720 --> 00:42:49.200
God<00:42:43.080> says<00:42:43.360> to<00:42:43.480> Job<00:42:43.720> at<00:42:43.800> a<00:42:43.840> certain<00:42:44.160> point,<00:42:45.640> Your<00:42:45.800> friends<00:42:46.160> have<00:42:46.280> not<00:42:46.480> spoken<00:42:46.800> the<00:42:46.920> truth<00:42:47.200> about<00:42:47.480> me<00:42:47.680> as<00:42:47.840> you<00:42:48.080> have.

00:42:49.200 --> 00:42:52.880
And<00:42:49.320> what's<00:42:49.520> the<00:42:49.640> truth<00:42:49.960> that<00:42:50.120> Job<00:42:50.360> spoke<00:42:51.400> that<00:42:51.600> they<00:42:51.760> didn't?

00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:55.840
The<00:42:53.000> truth<00:42:53.280> that<00:42:53.400> Job<00:42:53.640> spoke<00:42:53.960> is<00:42:54.160> I<00:42:54.240> didn't<00:42:54.480> deserve<00:42:54.840> to<00:42:54.960> suffer.

00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:58.440
They<00:42:56.000> kept<00:42:56.200> saying<00:42:56.400> you<00:42:56.520> did,<00:42:56.720> you<00:42:56.800> did,<00:42:57.040> you<00:42:57.120> did<00:42:57.280> and<00:42:57.360> he<00:42:57.440> kept<00:42:57.600> saying,<00:42:57.840> No,<00:42:58.080> I<00:42:58.160> didn't.

00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:01.240
I<00:42:58.520> mean,<00:42:58.680> maybe<00:42:58.880> I<00:42:58.920> did<00:42:59.080> a<00:42:59.120> little<00:42:59.400> bad,<00:42:59.680> but<00:42:59.800> I<00:42:59.840> didn't<00:43:00.200> do<00:43:00.360> this.

00:43:01.240 --> 00:43:04.160
And<00:43:01.360> then<00:43:01.520> God<00:43:01.760> says,<00:43:02.200> You<00:43:02.400> were<00:43:02.560> right<00:43:02.800> and<00:43:02.880> they<00:43:03.000> were<00:43:03.120> wrong.

00:43:04.160 --> 00:43:12.960
And<00:43:04.280> so<00:43:04.520> I<00:43:04.640> think<00:43:05.280> what<00:43:05.440> the<00:43:05.520> Bible<00:43:05.840> is<00:43:05.960> trying<00:43:06.360> to<00:43:06.480> say<00:43:06.840> is<00:43:08.400> there<00:43:08.720> actually<00:43:09.240> is,<00:43:09.600> according<00:43:10.080> to<00:43:10.200> the<00:43:10.320> human<00:43:10.800> perception<00:43:11.520> of<00:43:11.680> suffering,<00:43:12.680> there

00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:15.560
is<00:43:13.280> unjust<00:43:13.720> suffering<00:43:14.160> in<00:43:14.280> this<00:43:14.480> world.

00:43:15.560 --> 00:43:24.400
And<00:43:16.040> although<00:43:16.440> we<00:43:16.600> may<00:43:16.800> not<00:43:17.120> know<00:43:17.360> why,<00:43:18.120> it<00:43:18.320> is<00:43:18.560> true<00:43:19.040> and<00:43:19.240> we<00:43:19.360> can<00:43:19.520> call<00:43:19.840> it<00:43:20.000> unjust<00:43:20.440> suffering<00:43:21.320> and<00:43:21.760> God<00:43:22.040> doesn't<00:43:22.320> get<00:43:22.480> to<00:43:22.560> get<00:43:22.760> off<00:43:22.880> the<00:43:23.000> hook<00:43:23.400> for<00:43:23.640> everything

00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:27.600
because<00:43:24.720> Job<00:43:24.960> was<00:43:25.120> right.<00:43:25.560> He<00:43:25.680> didn't<00:43:25.920> deserve<00:43:26.280> it.

00:43:27.600 --> 00:43:37.080
Now<00:43:28.520> for<00:43:28.680> a<00:43:28.720> lot<00:43:28.840> of<00:43:28.920> people<00:43:29.960> uh<00:43:30.520> for<00:43:30.680> a<00:43:30.720> lot<00:43:30.840> of<00:43:30.920> religious<00:43:31.280> people<00:43:33.000> suffering<00:43:33.720> in<00:43:33.840> this<00:43:34.040> world,<00:43:34.720> unjust<00:43:35.280> suffering,<00:43:36.400> unmanageable

00:43:37.080 --> 00:43:45.320
suffering<00:43:39.520> the<00:43:39.680> thought<00:43:39.960> of<00:43:40.080> it<00:43:40.320> is<00:43:41.680> that<00:43:41.840> there's<00:43:42.040> some<00:43:42.840> consolation<00:43:43.560> to<00:43:43.640> be<00:43:43.720> taken<00:43:44.120> from<00:43:44.280> the<00:43:44.360> fact<00:43:45.200> that

00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:53.960
this<00:43:45.520> is<00:43:45.680> all<00:43:45.880> heading<00:43:46.160> towards<00:43:46.720> some<00:43:47.120> kind<00:43:47.480> of<00:43:47.800> salvation,<00:43:49.000> some<00:43:49.200> kind<00:43:49.400> of<00:43:49.520> afterlife,<00:43:50.240> some<00:43:50.400> kind<00:43:50.640> of<00:43:50.760> enjoyment<00:43:51.200> of<00:43:51.280> God<00:43:51.480> in<00:43:51.600> heaven<00:43:52.000> where<00:43:52.120> you're<00:43:52.440> sort<00:43:52.600> of<00:43:52.680> compensated

00:43:53.960 --> 00:44:00.520
or<00:43:54.120> maybe<00:43:54.920> you're<00:43:55.280> you're<00:43:56.040> you're<00:43:56.240> suffering<00:43:56.640> because<00:43:56.880> you<00:43:56.960> deserve<00:43:57.280> to<00:43:57.400> suffer<00:43:57.680> because<00:43:57.960> you're<00:43:58.080> a<00:43:58.120> sinner<00:43:58.520> and<00:43:58.640> we<00:43:58.720> live<00:43:58.880> in<00:43:58.960> a<00:43:59.000> fallen<00:43:59.400> world<00:43:59.760> and<00:43:59.880> Jesus<00:44:00.280> is<00:44:00.400> going

00:44:00.520 --> 00:44:08.200
to<00:44:00.600> come<00:44:00.760> and<00:44:00.880> take<00:44:01.080> that<00:44:01.240> sacrifice<00:44:01.800> for<00:44:01.960> you.<00:44:02.440> What<00:44:02.600> does<00:44:02.880> Judaism<00:44:03.440> offer<00:44:03.720> as<00:44:03.880> a<00:44:03.920> response<00:44:04.480> to<00:44:04.640> the<00:44:05.640> First<00:44:05.840> of<00:44:05.920> all,<00:44:06.040> Judaism<00:44:06.520> does<00:44:06.840> actually<00:44:07.480> believe<00:44:07.840> in<00:44:07.920> a<00:44:07.960> world

00:44:08.200 --> 00:44:14.560
to<00:44:08.280> come.<00:44:09.040> It<00:44:09.280> doesn't<00:44:11.160> elaborate<00:44:11.960> it<00:44:12.120> nearly<00:44:12.680> as<00:44:12.840> much<00:44:13.080> as<00:44:13.200> Christianity<00:44:13.840> does.

00:44:14.560 --> 00:44:17.920
Um,<00:44:14.880> it<00:44:15.080> just<00:44:15.280> speaks<00:44:15.560> about<00:44:15.840> it<00:44:15.960> in<00:44:16.160> those<00:44:16.400> sort<00:44:16.560> of<00:44:16.680> general<00:44:17.040> terms.

00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:22.640
Um,<00:44:18.400> in<00:44:18.600> part<00:44:18.840> I<00:44:18.920> think<00:44:19.160> because<00:44:19.520> it's<00:44:19.680> very<00:44:20.000> hard<00:44:20.320> to<00:44:20.400> describe<00:44:20.800> a<00:44:20.840> plausible<00:44:21.360> vision<00:44:21.680> of<00:44:21.760> heaven.

00:44:22.640 --> 00:44:28.320
You<00:44:22.680> know,<00:44:22.800> in<00:44:22.960> Letters<00:44:23.280> from<00:44:23.440> Earth,<00:44:23.600> Mark<00:44:23.800> Twain<00:44:24.040> says<00:44:24.240> people<00:44:24.560> think<00:44:25.520> that<00:44:25.720> they're<00:44:25.840> going<00:44:25.960> to<00:44:26.000> lie<00:44:26.240> on<00:44:26.360> green<00:44:26.560> fields<00:44:26.840> and<00:44:26.960> listen<00:44:27.200> to<00:44:27.320> harp<00:44:27.560> music<00:44:27.920> and<00:44:28.000> they<00:44:28.120> wouldn't

00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:33.520
want<00:44:28.440> to<00:44:28.520> do<00:44:28.600> it<00:44:28.720> for<00:44:28.880> 5<00:44:29.160> minutes<00:44:29.520> while<00:44:29.640> they're<00:44:29.800> alive,<00:44:30.160> but<00:44:30.280> they<00:44:30.360> think<00:44:30.520> they'll<00:44:30.640> be<00:44:30.760> happy<00:44:31.000> for<00:44:31.120> the<00:44:31.200> rest<00:44:31.400> of<00:44:31.440> eternity<00:44:31.960> doing<00:44:32.240> it<00:44:32.320> after<00:44:32.560> they<00:44:32.680> die.

00:44:33.520 --> 00:44:41.800
Um,<00:44:34.360> but<00:44:35.120> the<00:44:36.800> I<00:44:36.960> think<00:44:37.440> that<00:44:37.680> the<00:44:37.880> reason<00:44:38.440> that<00:44:38.680> it,<00:44:38.800> for<00:44:38.960> example,<00:44:39.360> is<00:44:39.480> not<00:44:39.840> really<00:44:40.120> mentioned<00:44:40.480> in<00:44:40.560> the<00:44:40.640> Hebrew<00:44:40.880> Bible<00:44:41.240> except<00:44:41.480> for<00:44:41.600> one

00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:50.000
or<00:44:41.880> two<00:44:42.120> slight,<00:44:42.600> like<00:44:42.760> Daniel<00:44:43.080> chapter<00:44:43.440> 12<00:44:44.040> and<00:44:44.440> one<00:44:44.840> mention<00:44:45.160> in<00:44:45.280> Isaiah,<00:44:46.120> is<00:44:46.880> that<00:44:48.680> you<00:44:48.880> really<00:44:49.120> should<00:44:49.320> keep<00:44:49.560> these<00:44:49.800> two

00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:54.080
things<00:44:50.280> distinct.<00:44:51.200> That<00:44:51.480> is,<00:44:52.240> is<00:44:52.480> there<00:44:52.680> unjust<00:44:53.080> suffering<00:44:53.480> in<00:44:53.560> the<00:44:53.640> world?

00:44:54.080 --> 00:45:01.800
Yes,<00:44:54.760> there<00:44:54.960> is<00:44:55.360> and<00:44:55.720> and<00:44:55.880> you<00:44:56.000> should<00:44:56.280> not<00:44:57.760> belittle<00:44:58.360> the<00:44:58.480> suffering<00:44:59.080> by<00:44:59.240> saying,<00:44:59.800> "Oh,<00:44:59.960> but<00:45:00.120> it's<00:45:00.240> going<00:45:00.360> to<00:45:00.400> be<00:45:00.520> fine."

00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:08.640
Because<00:45:02.560> that's<00:45:03.000> a<00:45:03.040> diminishment<00:45:03.960> of<00:45:04.280> the<00:45:04.400> human<00:45:04.680> experience<00:45:05.240> of<00:45:05.400> real<00:45:05.600> suffering<00:45:06.800> and<00:45:07.120> it's<00:45:07.320> too<00:45:07.520> easy.

00:45:08.640 --> 00:45:13.520
But<00:45:09.640> does<00:45:09.920> Judaism<00:45:10.360> believe<00:45:10.640> that<00:45:10.760> human<00:45:11.040> beings<00:45:11.440> have<00:45:11.720> a<00:45:11.760> spark<00:45:12.160> of<00:45:12.280> God<00:45:12.520> in<00:45:12.600> them<00:45:12.760> that<00:45:12.920> is<00:45:13.040> eternal?

00:45:13.520 --> 00:45:22.320
Absolutely.<00:45:14.440> And<00:45:14.600> so<00:45:14.720> do<00:45:14.920> I.<00:45:15.520> Um,<00:45:16.320> so<00:45:16.840> I<00:45:16.960> would<00:45:17.160> say<00:45:17.360> both<00:45:17.680> things<00:45:17.920> are<00:45:18.040> true<00:45:18.720> and<00:45:18.840> my<00:45:19.040> only<00:45:19.320> explanation<00:45:20.000> for<00:45:20.240> why,<00:45:21.240> and<00:45:21.400> it's<00:45:21.600> not

00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:28.040
it<00:45:22.520> is<00:45:22.800> hardly<00:45:23.920> adequate,<00:45:24.800> but<00:45:24.920> when<00:45:25.040> people<00:45:25.280> say,<00:45:25.440> "Why<00:45:25.640> is<00:45:25.760> there<00:45:25.920> unjust<00:45:26.240> suffering<00:45:26.640> in<00:45:26.720> the<00:45:26.800> world?"

00:45:28.040 --> 00:45:36.080
The<00:45:28.480> only<00:45:30.360> worthy<00:45:31.080> explanation<00:45:31.680> that<00:45:31.840> I<00:45:31.880> know<00:45:32.160> of<00:45:32.320> is<00:45:32.480> what's<00:45:32.680> basically<00:45:33.080> called<00:45:33.360> disteleological<00:45:34.440> sufferings<00:45:34.840> and<00:45:34.960> if<00:45:35.000> you're<00:45:35.120> a<00:45:35.160> philosophy<00:45:35.600> major,<00:45:35.840> I'll<00:45:35.920> give

00:45:36.080 --> 00:45:41.280
you<00:45:36.160> the<00:45:36.240> term.<00:45:36.880> Um,<00:45:37.920> it's<00:45:39.040> suffering<00:45:39.560> for<00:45:39.720> no<00:45:39.920> reason.

00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:45.760
And<00:45:41.880> that<00:45:42.120> is<00:45:42.240> the<00:45:42.520> only<00:45:42.880> kind<00:45:43.160> of<00:45:43.240> suffering<00:45:43.720> that<00:45:43.880> enables<00:45:44.360> goodness.

00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:53.960
Because<00:45:46.280> if<00:45:46.520> you<00:45:46.720> know<00:45:47.160> that<00:45:47.360> when<00:45:47.560> you're<00:45:47.800> good,<00:45:48.040> you'll<00:45:48.200> get<00:45:48.400> rewarded<00:45:49.880> and<00:45:50.560> every<00:45:50.800> time<00:45:51.000> you<00:45:51.120> steal,<00:45:51.560> you'll<00:45:51.680> get<00:45:51.840> a<00:45:51.880> disease,<00:45:52.840> you'd<00:45:53.000> never<00:45:53.280> steal,<00:45:53.840> but

00:45:53.960 --> 00:45:57.280
your<00:45:54.120> goodness<00:45:54.560> would<00:45:54.680> be<00:45:54.840> purely<00:45:55.240> prudential.<00:45:55.800> It<00:45:55.920> would<00:45:56.040> not<00:45:56.200> be<00:45:56.320> moral.

00:45:57.280 --> 00:46:02.960
The<00:45:57.440> only<00:45:57.760> way<00:45:57.880> to<00:45:58.000> be<00:45:58.120> morally<00:45:58.680> good<00:45:59.040> is<00:45:59.200> to<00:45:59.320> not<00:45:59.680> know<00:45:59.960> what's<00:46:00.160> going<00:46:00.360> to<00:46:00.440> happen<00:46:00.760> to<00:46:00.920> you<00:46:01.160> even<00:46:01.520> though<00:46:01.760> you're<00:46:01.880> morally<00:46:02.320> good.

00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:10.600
Mhm.<00:46:03.360> And<00:46:03.520> so<00:46:04.200> I<00:46:04.440> think<00:46:05.480> that<00:46:05.640> that's<00:46:05.920> why<00:46:06.160> there's<00:46:06.400> unjust<00:46:06.800> suffering<00:46:07.160> in<00:46:07.240> the<00:46:07.320> world<00:46:07.680> because<00:46:08.000> the<00:46:08.120> world<00:46:08.360> is<00:46:08.480> a<00:46:08.520> great<00:46:08.840> moral<00:46:09.200> drama<00:46:09.640> and<00:46:09.720> that's<00:46:10.000> what<00:46:10.160> we're<00:46:10.280> supposed

00:46:10.600 --> 00:46:14.440
to<00:46:10.640> be<00:46:10.760> doing.<00:46:11.120> Just<00:46:11.240> fascinating<00:46:11.720> for<00:46:11.880> all<00:46:12.080> the<00:46:12.200> time<00:46:12.520> I've<00:46:12.640> spent<00:46:12.960> talking<00:46:13.280> about<00:46:13.480> the<00:46:13.560> problem<00:46:13.920> of<00:46:14.040> evil.

00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:18.520
I<00:46:14.480> don't<00:46:14.880> think<00:46:15.560> I've<00:46:16.080> heard<00:46:16.480> this<00:46:16.640> response<00:46:17.080> in<00:46:17.160> conversation<00:46:17.760> before.

00:46:18.520 --> 00:46:27.040
It's<00:46:18.760> not<00:46:19.120> a<00:46:19.200> kind<00:46:19.480> of<00:46:19.840> attempt<00:46:20.240> to<00:46:20.360> justify<00:46:21.480> suffering<00:46:21.960> by<00:46:22.120> saying<00:46:22.640> like,<00:46:23.240> well,<00:46:23.480> more<00:46:24.160> goods<00:46:24.480> come<00:46:24.680> out<00:46:24.920> of<00:46:25.040> it<00:46:25.320> or<00:46:25.600> oh,<00:46:25.680> it<00:46:25.840> has<00:46:26.040> to<00:46:26.120> be<00:46:26.200> there<00:46:26.360> for<00:46:26.480> free<00:46:26.760> will

00:46:27.040 --> 00:46:33.560
or<00:46:27.120> this<00:46:27.280> kind<00:46:27.520> of<00:46:27.600> stuff.<00:46:27.800> It's<00:46:27.960> like<00:46:28.840> a<00:46:28.880> lot<00:46:29.040> of<00:46:29.080> people<00:46:29.280> parody<00:46:29.680> the<00:46:29.800> religious<00:46:30.240> by<00:46:30.400> saying,<00:46:31.240> oh,<00:46:31.360> you're<00:46:31.480> telling<00:46:31.720> me<00:46:31.840> that<00:46:31.960> the<00:46:32.120> only<00:46:32.360> thing<00:46:32.560> stopping<00:46:32.960> you<00:46:33.280> from

00:46:33.560 --> 00:46:36.840
going<00:46:33.880> and<00:46:34.120> you<00:46:34.160> know,<00:46:34.280> shooting<00:46:34.640> up<00:46:34.760> a<00:46:34.800> school<00:46:35.320> is<00:46:35.440> the<00:46:35.480> fact<00:46:35.680> that<00:46:35.760> God<00:46:35.960> doesn't<00:46:36.200> want<00:46:36.320> you<00:46:36.440> to.

00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:41.080
Well,<00:46:36.998> that's<00:46:37.157> terrible,<00:46:37.315> you<00:46:37.473> know,<00:46:37.632> that's<00:46:37.790> terrifying.<00:46:37.948> Does<00:46:38.107> that<00:46:38.265> mean<00:46:38.423> that<00:46:38.582> if<00:46:38.740> I<00:46:38.898> turn<00:46:39.057> you<00:46:39.215> into<00:46:39.373> an<00:46:39.532> atheist,<00:46:39.690> you're<00:46:39.848> going<00:46:40.007> to<00:46:40.165> go<00:46:40.323> and<00:46:40.482> do<00:46:40.640> that?

00:46:41.080 --> 00:46:42.960
Like,<00:46:41.240> no,<00:46:41.440> you<00:46:41.880> you<00:46:42.000> won't<00:46:42.160> do<00:46:42.320> that<00:46:42.480> anyway,<00:46:42.760> right?

00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:50.640
And<00:46:44.080> and<00:46:44.720> there<00:46:44.920> is<00:46:45.040> this<00:46:45.200> problem<00:46:45.680> as<00:46:45.800> well<00:46:46.160> of<00:46:46.400> there<00:46:46.520> being<00:46:46.760> no<00:46:46.920> such<00:46:47.120> thing<00:46:47.280> as<00:46:47.360> altruism,<00:46:48.040> you<00:46:48.160> know,<00:46:48.440> like<00:46:49.000> you<00:46:49.080> know,<00:46:49.240> giving<00:46:49.640> giving<00:46:49.880> some<00:46:50.000> money<00:46:50.200> to<00:46:50.280> the<00:46:50.360> homeless

00:46:50.640 --> 00:46:52.920
person<00:46:50.960> because<00:46:51.640> you<00:46:51.800> would<00:46:51.960> feel<00:46:52.200> so<00:46:52.360> bad.

00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:59.000
I<00:46:52.960> mean,<00:46:53.120> if<00:46:53.280> you<00:46:53.360> see<00:46:53.600> a<00:46:54.560> I<00:46:54.600> often<00:46:54.760> give<00:46:54.880> the<00:46:54.920> example<00:46:55.240> of<00:46:55.280> like<00:46:55.400> a<00:46:55.480> firefighter<00:46:56.040> running<00:46:56.320> into<00:46:56.480> a<00:46:56.560> building<00:46:56.880> to<00:46:56.920> save<00:46:57.120> a<00:46:57.200> child<00:46:57.920> being<00:46:58.120> sort<00:46:58.240> of<00:46:58.320> interviewed<00:46:58.760> by<00:46:58.880> the

00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:02.640
news<00:46:59.640> afterwards<00:47:00.120> and<00:47:00.200> he<00:47:00.320> says,<00:47:00.520> well,<00:47:00.720> I<00:47:00.800> just<00:47:01.720> you<00:47:01.760> know,<00:47:01.840> I<00:47:01.960> I<00:47:02.040> didn't<00:47:02.200> even<00:47:02.320> think<00:47:02.440> about<00:47:02.560> it.

00:47:02.640 --> 00:47:05.240
I<00:47:02.680> had<00:47:02.880> to<00:47:02.960> do<00:47:03.080> it.<00:47:03.200> You<00:47:03.280> know,<00:47:03.400> I<00:47:03.480> couldn't<00:47:03.720> live<00:47:03.880> with<00:47:04.000> myself<00:47:04.360> if<00:47:04.520> I<00:47:04.560> didn't.

00:47:05.240 --> 00:47:08.120
And<00:47:05.360> we<00:47:05.440> go,<00:47:05.520> what<00:47:05.640> a<00:47:05.720> hero.<00:47:06.720> But<00:47:06.760> what's<00:47:06.920> he<00:47:07.000> just<00:47:07.160> said?

00:47:08.120 --> 00:47:11.520
He<00:47:08.200> said<00:47:08.360> he's<00:47:08.480> done<00:47:08.600> it<00:47:08.680> for<00:47:08.800> his<00:47:08.920> own<00:47:09.120> sake,<00:47:09.520> you<00:47:09.600> know?<00:47:09.880> I<00:47:10.040> couldn't<00:47:10.280> have<00:47:10.360> slept<00:47:10.600> at<00:47:10.680> night<00:47:10.840> if<00:47:10.960> I<00:47:11.000> didn't<00:47:11.200> do<00:47:11.280> it<00:47:11.360> for<00:47:11.440> myself.

00:47:11.520 --> 00:47:18.840
The<00:47:11.980> definition<00:47:12.440> of<00:47:12.900> a<00:47:13.360> good<00:47:13.820> person<00:47:14.280> is<00:47:14.740> somebody<00:47:15.200> whose<00:47:15.660> moral<00:47:16.120> impulses<00:47:16.580> are<00:47:17.040> what<00:47:17.500> motivate<00:47:17.960> them.

00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:26.120
If<00:47:19.000> you<00:47:19.120> want<00:47:19.440> I<00:47:19.480> mean,<00:47:19.720> I<00:47:19.960> it's<00:47:20.200> impossible<00:47:20.800> to<00:47:20.960> ask<00:47:21.280> of<00:47:21.360> someone<00:47:22.200> to<00:47:22.360> do<00:47:22.560> that<00:47:23.000> which<00:47:23.880> they<00:47:24.080> would<00:47:24.400> they<00:47:24.560> would<00:47:24.760> by<00:47:24.880> definition<00:47:25.400> not<00:47:25.640> do.

00:47:26.120 --> 00:47:34.440
Yeah.<00:47:26.480> It's<00:47:27.160> so<00:47:27.360> interesting<00:47:27.880> the<00:47:28.000> idea<00:47:28.280> that<00:47:29.200> the<00:47:29.280> reason<00:47:29.600> suffering<00:47:30.880> unnecessary<00:47:31.400> suffering<00:47:31.720> exists<00:47:32.720> is<00:47:32.840> because<00:47:33.120> if<00:47:33.280> it<00:47:33.400> didn't,<00:47:34.280> then

00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:43.040
people<00:47:34.760> would<00:47:34.920> be<00:47:35.080> secure<00:47:36.320> in<00:47:37.880> the<00:47:38.920> the<00:47:39.240> the<00:47:39.320> consequences<00:47:39.920> of<00:47:40.000> their<00:47:40.200> actions<00:47:41.120> and<00:47:41.240> it<00:47:41.320> wouldn't<00:47:41.600> leave<00:47:41.840> room<00:47:42.200> for<00:47:42.360> doing<00:47:42.640> things

00:47:43.040 --> 00:47:45.240
for<00:47:43.200> their<00:47:43.400> own<00:47:43.560> sake.<00:47:44.080> Box,<00:47:44.560> basically.

00:47:45.240 --> 00:47:49.840
That's<00:47:45.360> interesting.<00:47:45.640> I<00:47:45.680> mean,<00:47:45.800> I<00:47:45.840> think<00:47:46.000> there's<00:47:46.120> a<00:47:46.200> there's<00:47:46.360> a<00:47:46.400> whole<00:47:46.600> philosophical<00:47:47.120> discourse<00:47:47.480> to<00:47:47.560> be<00:47:47.680> had<00:47:47.840> as<00:47:47.920> to<00:47:48.000> whether<00:47:48.200> that<00:47:48.440> is<00:47:48.640> a<00:47:48.720> preferable<00:47:49.280> world<00:47:49.680> over

00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:52.800
the<00:47:49.960> one<00:47:50.120> that<00:47:50.240> doesn't<00:47:50.480> have<00:47:50.600> any<00:47:50.760> suffering<00:47:51.160> that<00:47:51.280> doesn't<00:47:51.560> have<00:47:51.680> that<00:47:51.960> kind<00:47:52.240> I<00:47:52.320> agree<00:47:52.560> with<00:47:52.720> you.

00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:55.280
There<00:47:53.040> is,<00:47:53.480> but<00:47:54.160> this<00:47:54.400> is<00:47:54.480> the<00:47:54.560> one<00:47:54.720> we<00:47:54.800> got.

00:47:55.280 --> 00:48:03.040
Yeah,<00:47:55.560> I<00:47:55.720> I<00:47:55.920> I<00:47:56.520> I<00:47:56.640> think<00:47:56.840> that's<00:47:57.080> um<00:47:57.960> it<00:47:58.040> would<00:47:58.120> be<00:47:58.200> interesting<00:47:58.560> to<00:47:58.680> go<00:47:58.800> down<00:47:59.000> but<00:47:59.120> I'm<00:47:59.360> I'm<00:48:00.000> still<00:48:00.560> so<00:48:00.680> much<00:48:00.840> more<00:48:01.000> that<00:48:01.120> I<00:48:01.160> want<00:48:01.320> to<00:48:01.360> learn<00:48:01.520> about<00:48:02.280> about<00:48:02.440> Judaism<00:48:02.920> and

00:48:03.040 --> 00:48:09.840
we<00:48:03.080> were<00:48:03.160> talking<00:48:03.440> about<00:48:03.600> the<00:48:03.720> afterlife<00:48:04.160> in<00:48:04.280> general<00:48:05.280> and<00:48:06.080> I<00:48:06.160> mean<00:48:06.280> I've<00:48:06.400> heard<00:48:06.640> the<00:48:06.760> idea<00:48:07.000> said<00:48:07.200> before<00:48:07.520> that<00:48:07.640> sort<00:48:07.840> of<00:48:07.920> well<00:48:08.120> Judaism<00:48:08.560> doesn't<00:48:08.840> really<00:48:09.120> have<00:48:09.280> an<00:48:09.360> afterlife

00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:16.840
that<00:48:10.000> sort<00:48:10.240> of<00:48:10.280> develops<00:48:11.080> later<00:48:11.520> on<00:48:11.680> in<00:48:11.760> the<00:48:11.840> New<00:48:12.040> Testament<00:48:12.520> when<00:48:12.600> I'm<00:48:12.680> speaking<00:48:13.000> with<00:48:13.120> Christians<00:48:13.600> but<00:48:13.720> it<00:48:13.800> seems<00:48:14.040> like<00:48:14.200> you're<00:48:14.320> saying<00:48:15.400> that<00:48:15.480> there<00:48:15.640> is<00:48:15.800> a<00:48:16.640> there<00:48:16.760> is

00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:22.400
a<00:48:16.880> concept<00:48:17.440> of<00:48:17.560> afterlife<00:48:18.200> but<00:48:18.400> maybe<00:48:18.840> it's<00:48:19.000> not<00:48:19.120> very<00:48:19.280> well<00:48:19.440> described.<00:48:20.320> It's<00:48:20.360> not<00:48:20.560> well<00:48:20.720> described<00:48:21.240> in<00:48:21.320> the<00:48:21.400> Hebrew<00:48:21.680> Bible.

00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:31.400
In<00:48:22.560> the<00:48:22.680> Talmud<00:48:23.760> which<00:48:24.000> is<00:48:25.720> in<00:48:25.960> the<00:48:26.080> time<00:48:26.320> of<00:48:26.440> Jesus<00:48:26.800> and<00:48:26.960> later<00:48:27.680> a<00:48:27.760> little<00:48:28.080> earlier<00:48:28.440> than<00:48:28.600> Jesus<00:48:28.960> a<00:48:29.000> little<00:48:29.280> after<00:48:29.560> Jesus<00:48:29.960> and<00:48:30.080> later<00:48:30.960> there

00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:36.400
it's<00:48:31.920> all<00:48:32.440> it's<00:48:32.680> mentioned<00:48:33.040> on<00:48:33.240> almost<00:48:33.640> every<00:48:33.840> page<00:48:34.520> constantly<00:48:35.160> mentioned<00:48:35.480> the<00:48:35.560> world<00:48:35.760> to<00:48:35.840> come.

00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:45.320
So<00:48:37.520> we<00:48:37.760> know<00:48:38.120> that<00:48:38.520> that<00:48:39.440> that<00:48:40.560> early<00:48:40.960> Israel<00:48:41.400> was<00:48:41.880> was<00:48:42.160> exposed<00:48:42.640> to<00:48:42.720> the<00:48:42.840> idea<00:48:43.160> of<00:48:43.240> the<00:48:43.360> afterlife<00:48:43.840> because<00:48:44.040> after<00:48:44.320> all<00:48:44.480> Egypt

00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:53.600
is<00:48:45.520> like<00:48:46.120> the<00:48:46.240> capital<00:48:46.880> of<00:48:47.360> mummification<00:48:48.320> and<00:48:48.520> pyramids<00:48:49.240> and<00:48:49.480> afterlife<00:48:50.560> but<00:48:50.720> for<00:48:50.840> some<00:48:51.200> reason<00:48:51.880> and<00:48:52.040> maybe<00:48:52.320> this<00:48:52.520> is<00:48:52.640> why<00:48:53.440> it

00:48:53.600 --> 00:49:02.880
did<00:48:53.760> not<00:48:54.160> really<00:48:54.480> capture<00:48:55.080> and<00:48:55.280> that's<00:48:55.480> why<00:48:55.560> it's<00:48:55.680> so<00:48:55.840> scant<00:48:56.520> in<00:48:56.600> the<00:48:56.680> Bible<00:48:57.080> but<00:48:57.240> by<00:48:57.360> the<00:48:57.480> time<00:48:58.280> by<00:48:58.400> the<00:48:58.520> time<00:48:58.760> of<00:48:58.840> the<00:48:58.920> Talmud<00:48:59.360> which<00:48:59.600> is<00:48:59.800> probably<00:49:00.280> 50<00:49:00.840> BCE<00:49:02.640> and

00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:07.080
onward<00:49:04.080> it<00:49:04.480> became<00:49:05.280> fairly<00:49:05.840> fully<00:49:06.160> developed.

00:49:07.080 --> 00:49:11.440
Why<00:49:07.400> do<00:49:07.480> you<00:49:07.560> think<00:49:07.720> it<00:49:07.840> only<00:49:08.000> develops<00:49:08.880> sort<00:49:09.000> of<00:49:09.320> later<00:49:09.720> on<00:49:09.880> in<00:49:09.960> this<00:49:10.080> tradition?

00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:20.000
Um<00:49:12.080> I<00:49:12.200> don't<00:49:12.640> know.<00:49:13.720> My<00:49:15.280> sort<00:49:15.720> of<00:49:15.960> very<00:49:16.480> uneducated<00:49:17.240> intuition<00:49:18.000> is<00:49:19.560> over

00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:27.600
time<00:49:21.960> the<00:49:22.680> corporate<00:49:23.400> fate<00:49:24.840> gave<00:49:25.280> way<00:49:25.480> to<00:49:25.600> the<00:49:25.760> individual<00:49:26.360> fate.

00:49:27.600 --> 00:49:35.120
And<00:49:28.000> sure.<00:49:28.320> If<00:49:28.520> you<00:49:28.720> can<00:49:28.960> think<00:49:29.320> of<00:49:29.800> it<00:49:29.920> doesn't<00:49:30.160> matter<00:49:30.360> what<00:49:30.480> happens<00:49:30.800> to<00:49:30.880> me<00:49:31.000> as<00:49:31.120> long<00:49:31.240> as<00:49:31.320> the<00:49:31.400> people<00:49:31.720> Israel<00:49:32.200> is<00:49:32.480> okay<00:49:32.880> or<00:49:33.040> survives<00:49:34.160> then<00:49:34.320> the<00:49:34.440> afterlife<00:49:34.880> isn't

00:49:35.120 --> 00:49:43.240
so<00:49:35.240> important<00:49:36.080> but<00:49:36.240> once<00:49:36.480> you<00:49:36.560> think<00:49:37.000> hey<00:49:37.240> it<00:49:37.320> really<00:49:37.600> matters<00:49:37.960> what<00:49:38.080> happens<00:49:38.400> to<00:49:38.520> me<00:49:39.480> then<00:49:39.760> actually<00:49:40.200> the<00:49:40.320> afterlife<00:49:40.840> takes<00:49:41.120> on<00:49:41.360> a<00:49:41.400> whole<00:49:42.040> new<00:49:42.280> significance.

00:49:43.240 --> 00:49:48.960
You<00:49:43.320> said<00:49:43.520> there<00:49:43.640> were<00:49:43.800> a<00:49:43.840> few<00:49:44.040> instances<00:49:44.600> in<00:49:44.680> the<00:49:44.760> Hebrew<00:49:45.080> Bible<00:49:45.600> where<00:49:46.440> an<00:49:46.600> afterlife<00:49:46.960> is<00:49:47.040> sort<00:49:47.200> of<00:49:47.280> referred<00:49:47.600> to<00:49:47.680> or<00:49:47.760> mentioned.

00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:53.840
What<00:49:49.280> does<00:49:49.520> it<00:49:49.640> say?<00:49:50.040> Daniel<00:49:50.120> chapter<00:49:50.520> 12<00:49:50.920> it<00:49:51.040> says<00:49:51.640> some<00:49:51.920> will<00:49:52.160> awake<00:49:52.480> to<00:49:52.600> everlasting<00:49:53.240> life.

00:49:53.840 --> 00:50:01.680
Mhm.<00:49:54.360> So<00:49:54.840> that's<00:49:55.360> like<00:49:55.600> an<00:49:55.680> explicit<00:49:56.400> that's<00:49:56.640> the<00:49:56.760> most<00:49:57.160> explicit<00:49:57.720> mention<00:49:58.440> of<00:49:58.560> the<00:49:58.680> afterlife<00:49:59.120> but<00:49:59.240> Daniel<00:49:59.600> is<00:49:59.720> a<00:49:59.760> very<00:50:00.080> is<00:50:00.560> is<00:50:00.720> a<00:50:00.800> later<00:50:01.120> book.

00:50:01.680 --> 00:50:10.080
Yeah,<00:50:02.120> sure.<00:50:02.520> Sure.<00:50:03.320> In<00:50:03.480> your<00:50:03.680> vision<00:50:04.120> of<00:50:04.920> what<00:50:05.080> to<00:50:05.200> expect<00:50:05.600> when<00:50:05.760> somebody<00:50:06.120> dies,<00:50:06.840> I'm<00:50:07.080> interested<00:50:07.560> just<00:50:07.720> in<00:50:07.800> your<00:50:07.920> personal<00:50:08.280> views<00:50:08.520> because<00:50:09.480> some<00:50:09.800> people

00:50:10.080 --> 00:50:16.880
have<00:50:10.240> this<00:50:10.440> idea<00:50:10.960> of<00:50:12.040> you<00:50:12.160> die<00:50:12.480> and<00:50:12.600> your<00:50:12.720> soul<00:50:13.240> just<00:50:13.440> sort<00:50:13.640> of<00:50:13.720> eventually<00:50:14.320> just<00:50:14.680> instantly<00:50:15.160> ends<00:50:15.440> up<00:50:15.600> in<00:50:15.720> this<00:50:15.840> new<00:50:16.040> place<00:50:16.240> called<00:50:16.440> heaven.

00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:21.600
Some<00:50:17.120> people<00:50:17.400> imagine<00:50:17.760> that<00:50:17.920> you'll<00:50:18.080> be<00:50:18.240> sort<00:50:18.440> of<00:50:18.560> asleep<00:50:19.040> until<00:50:19.400> some<00:50:19.640> kind<00:50:19.840> of<00:50:19.960> physical<00:50:20.440> resurrection.

00:50:21.600 --> 00:50:24.240
You<00:50:21.680> know,<00:50:21.760> like<00:50:22.240> do<00:50:22.320> you<00:50:22.400> think<00:50:22.560> this<00:50:22.680> afterlife<00:50:23.120> will<00:50:23.240> be<00:50:23.440> a<00:50:23.600> physical<00:50:24.040> one?

00:50:24.240 --> 00:50:26.120
Will<00:50:24.360> you<00:50:24.440> have<00:50:24.560> a<00:50:24.600> body?<00:50:25.000> Is<00:50:25.160> it<00:50:25.240> a<00:50:25.280> spiritual<00:50:25.920> one?

00:50:26.120 --> 00:50:32.240
Like<00:50:26.320> what<00:50:26.440> what<00:50:26.520> do<00:50:26.560> you<00:50:26.680> expect?<00:50:27.320> Say<00:50:27.760> like<00:50:28.360> because<00:50:28.880> Judaism<00:50:29.440> has<00:50:29.720> an<00:50:29.840> idea<00:50:30.320> of<00:50:30.440> physical<00:50:30.840> resurrection.

00:50:32.240 --> 00:50:40.960
I<00:50:32.440> like<00:50:33.160> in<00:50:33.360> in<00:50:33.600> theory<00:50:35.000> I<00:50:35.080> like<00:50:35.440> the<00:50:35.640> idea<00:50:36.000> of<00:50:36.080> physical<00:50:36.440> resurrection<00:50:36.960> only<00:50:37.160> because<00:50:37.440> that's<00:50:37.640> a<00:50:37.680> way<00:50:37.800> of<00:50:37.920> saying<00:50:38.160> a<00:50:38.200> body<00:50:38.520> is<00:50:38.640> not<00:50:38.800> a<00:50:38.840> bad<00:50:39.120> thing<00:50:39.760> and<00:50:39.960> I<00:50:40.280> I

00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:42.760
approve<00:50:41.680> of<00:50:42.520> Right.

00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:47.000
thinking<00:50:43.000> of<00:50:43.120> bodies<00:50:43.560> as<00:50:43.680> good<00:50:43.880> things<00:50:44.160> as<00:50:44.280> opposed<00:50:44.680> to<00:50:44.840> like<00:50:45.280> repositories<00:50:46.000> of<00:50:46.120> sin.

00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:54.040
Um<00:50:48.720> but<00:50:48.920> I<00:50:49.040> find<00:50:49.360> it<00:50:49.440> impossible<00:50:50.000> to<00:50:50.080> believe<00:50:50.800> that<00:50:51.000> actually<00:50:51.280> there'll<00:50:51.440> be<00:50:51.560> physical<00:50:51.880> res<00:50:52.080> I<00:50:52.200> just<00:50:52.400> can't<00:50:52.720> wrap<00:50:52.920> my<00:50:53.040> head<00:50:53.160> around<00:50:53.480> it.

00:50:54.040 --> 00:51:01.520
Um<00:50:54.160> although<00:50:54.520> in<00:50:54.680> the<00:50:54.800> Talmud<00:50:55.280> again<00:50:55.640> it<00:50:55.760> says,<00:50:56.480> you<00:50:56.560> know,<00:50:56.640> if<00:50:56.720> God<00:50:56.960> can<00:50:57.080> make<00:50:57.440> somebody<00:50:57.840> from<00:50:58.120> dust,<00:50:58.560> God<00:50:58.760> can<00:50:58.880> make<00:50:59.040> somebody<00:50:59.400> from<00:50:59.760> the<00:50:59.880> remains<00:51:00.320> of<00:51:00.480> somebody.

00:51:01.520 --> 00:51:08.760
Um<00:51:01.920> which<00:51:02.280> makes<00:51:02.480> sense.<00:51:02.960> Nonetheless,<00:51:04.120> what<00:51:04.320> I<00:51:04.400> would<00:51:04.560> say<00:51:04.800> is<00:51:06.080> I<00:51:06.240> look,<00:51:06.520> I<00:51:06.600> couldn't<00:51:06.880> imagine<00:51:07.240> this<00:51:07.440> world<00:51:07.680> before<00:51:07.920> I<00:51:08.000> came<00:51:08.200> into<00:51:08.440> it.

00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:14.320
I<00:51:08.880> didn't<00:51:09.360> you<00:51:09.480> know,<00:51:09.760> eyes<00:51:10.120> and<00:51:10.280> tuna<00:51:10.520> fish<00:51:10.840> and<00:51:11.080> and<00:51:11.240> hotel<00:51:11.600> rooms<00:51:12.040> and<00:51:12.800> it's<00:51:13.080> way<00:51:13.320> beyond<00:51:13.720> me.

00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:18.080
So<00:51:14.520> how<00:51:14.680> could<00:51:14.840> I<00:51:14.920> possibly<00:51:15.520> imagine<00:51:15.880> what<00:51:16.000> another<00:51:16.320> world<00:51:16.520> would<00:51:16.640> be<00:51:16.760> like?

00:51:18.080 --> 00:51:25.760
This<00:51:18.320> is<00:51:18.840> part<00:51:19.080> of<00:51:19.160> my<00:51:20.080> I<00:51:20.120> mean<00:51:20.280> science<00:51:20.640> fiction<00:51:20.920> is<00:51:21.000> almost<00:51:21.240> always<00:51:21.440> an<00:51:21.520> extrapolation<00:51:22.240> of<00:51:22.320> what<00:51:22.440> we<00:51:22.560> already<00:51:22.880> know<00:51:23.200> because<00:51:23.560> we<00:51:23.720> by<00:51:23.880> definition<00:51:24.560> can't<00:51:25.040> imagine<00:51:25.480> things

00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:34.240
we<00:51:25.880> don't<00:51:26.120> know.<00:51:26.800> Um<00:51:27.120> and<00:51:28.280> and<00:51:28.440> so<00:51:28.680> I<00:51:29.000> I<00:51:30.040> when<00:51:30.200> I<00:51:30.280> want<00:51:30.400> to<00:51:30.480> be<00:51:30.600> homiletic<00:51:31.120> about<00:51:31.440> it<00:51:31.640> which<00:51:31.800> I<00:51:31.880> do<00:51:32.040> from<00:51:32.200> time<00:51:32.400> to<00:51:32.520> time,<00:51:33.200> I<00:51:33.400> quote<00:51:33.960> this

00:51:34.240 --> 00:51:42.960
parable<00:51:35.680> um<00:51:36.480> that<00:51:36.680> opens<00:51:37.040> a<00:51:37.120> book<00:51:37.920> about<00:51:38.320> Jewish<00:51:38.680> mourning<00:51:39.800> um<00:51:40.480> about<00:51:40.800> two<00:51:40.960> twins<00:51:41.320> in<00:51:41.440> a<00:51:41.800> in<00:51:42.000> a<00:51:42.080> womb<00:51:42.760> and

00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.240
one<00:51:43.120> of<00:51:43.200> them<00:51:43.400> believes<00:51:43.840> there's<00:51:44.000> a<00:51:44.080> world<00:51:44.320> outside<00:51:44.640> the<00:51:44.720> womb<00:51:44.920> and<00:51:45.040> one<00:51:45.200> doesn't.

00:51:46.240 --> 00:51:52.520
And<00:51:47.120> the<00:51:47.200> one<00:51:47.480> who<00:51:48.160> believes<00:51:48.600> it<00:51:48.760> says,<00:51:49.120> of<00:51:49.280> course<00:51:49.560> there's<00:51:49.800> got<00:51:49.960> to<00:51:50.040> be<00:51:50.120> another<00:51:50.400> world<00:51:50.560> and<00:51:50.640> the<00:51:50.720> one<00:51:50.840> who<00:51:50.920> doesn't<00:51:51.200> says,<00:51:51.360> we've<00:51:51.520> never<00:51:51.760> known<00:51:52.000> anything<00:51:52.280> else,<00:51:52.440> we've

00:51:52.520 --> 00:51:56.960
never<00:51:52.760> seen<00:51:53.040> anything<00:51:53.360> else.<00:51:53.840> So,<00:51:53.960> now<00:51:54.280> imagine<00:51:54.720> that<00:51:54.840> the<00:51:54.920> one<00:51:55.040> who<00:51:55.160> believes<00:51:55.480> it<00:51:55.600> is<00:51:55.720> born.

00:51:56.960 --> 00:52:05.120
Back<00:51:57.200> in<00:51:57.320> the<00:51:57.400> womb,<00:51:58.520> his<00:51:58.720> sibling<00:51:59.120> is<00:51:59.240> mourning<00:51:59.600> a<00:51:59.640> death,<00:52:00.080> but<00:52:00.240> outside<00:52:01.360> they're<00:52:01.520> celebrating<00:52:02.040> a<00:52:02.080> birth<00:52:02.640> and<00:52:02.760> that's<00:52:02.960> what<00:52:03.080> it's<00:52:03.200> like<00:52:03.400> when<00:52:03.520> you<00:52:03.640> die.

00:52:05.120 --> 00:52:11.640
So,<00:52:05.200> do<00:52:05.320> you<00:52:05.400> think<00:52:05.640> it<00:52:05.760> is<00:52:06.400> similarly<00:52:07.840> inappropriate<00:52:08.560> or<00:52:08.760> irrational<00:52:09.640> to<00:52:09.760> mourn<00:52:10.480> when<00:52:10.640> people<00:52:10.880> do<00:52:11.040> die?

00:52:11.640 --> 00:52:19.160
No,<00:52:12.000> because<00:52:13.440> what<00:52:13.800> you're<00:52:14.400> for<00:52:14.520> the<00:52:14.640> most<00:52:15.000> part<00:52:15.240> what<00:52:15.400> you're<00:52:15.520> mourning<00:52:17.000> is<00:52:17.360> your<00:52:17.520> loss<00:52:17.840> of<00:52:17.920> them.

00:52:19.160 --> 00:52:24.960
You're<00:52:19.560> I<00:52:19.680> think<00:52:19.920> people<00:52:20.200> are<00:52:20.320> less<00:52:20.800> often<00:52:21.280> mourning<00:52:22.240> the<00:52:22.440> person<00:52:23.320> than<00:52:23.480> they<00:52:23.680> are<00:52:23.840> the<00:52:23.960> loss<00:52:24.280> of<00:52:24.400> the<00:52:24.520> person.

00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:28.880
Yeah,<00:52:25.080> I<00:52:25.280> so<00:52:25.480> I've<00:52:25.600> heard<00:52:25.840> this<00:52:26.200> response<00:52:26.600> before<00:52:27.000> because<00:52:27.240> this<00:52:27.360> comes<00:52:27.560> up<00:52:27.720> as<00:52:27.840> an<00:52:27.920> objection.

00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:34.400
Um<00:52:28.960> a<00:52:29.000> lot<00:52:29.160> of<00:52:29.240> people<00:52:29.520> say,<00:52:30.160> you<00:52:30.280> know,<00:52:30.720> oh<00:52:30.920> well,<00:52:31.080> you<00:52:31.200> think<00:52:31.360> you're<00:52:31.440> an<00:52:31.520> atheist,<00:52:31.880> you<00:52:31.920> don't<00:52:32.120> act<00:52:32.280> like<00:52:32.400> an<00:52:32.520> atheist,<00:52:32.960> you<00:52:33.040> believe<00:52:33.280> in<00:52:33.400> morality,<00:52:33.960> you<00:52:34.080> believe<00:52:34.320> in

00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:39.640
conscience,<00:52:34.960> you<00:52:35.040> know,<00:52:35.160> you<00:52:35.240> must<00:52:35.400> really<00:52:35.560> believe<00:52:35.760> in<00:52:35.840> God<00:52:36.080> and<00:52:36.680> my<00:52:36.800> response<00:52:37.160> to<00:52:37.200> that<00:52:37.320> has<00:52:37.400> been<00:52:37.560> to<00:52:37.680> say,<00:52:37.880> well,<00:52:38.200> you<00:52:38.360> mourn<00:52:38.600> when<00:52:38.720> people<00:52:39.000> die.

00:52:39.640 --> 00:52:46.520
Right.<00:52:39.920> And<00:52:40.040> people<00:52:40.280> do<00:52:40.440> say<00:52:40.640> to<00:52:40.760> me,<00:52:40.920> well,<00:52:41.080> it's<00:52:41.200> because<00:52:41.440> of<00:52:41.480> the<00:52:41.560> separation,<00:52:42.280> but<00:52:42.960> the<00:52:43.080> story<00:52:43.440> I<00:52:43.520> give<00:52:43.720> there<00:52:44.000> is<00:52:44.120> to<00:52:44.240> say,<00:52:44.440> imagine<00:52:44.880> that<00:52:45.840> you<00:52:45.960> know,<00:52:46.160> a<00:52:46.200> a<00:52:46.280> really

00:52:46.520 --> 00:52:55.480
close<00:52:46.760> friend<00:52:47.000> of<00:52:47.080> yours<00:52:48.000> is<00:52:48.160> moving<00:52:48.480> to<00:52:48.600> Australia<00:52:49.720> or<00:52:49.840> or<00:52:50.080> or<00:52:50.240> they're<00:52:50.520> sort<00:52:50.680> of<00:52:50.960> going<00:52:51.200> off<00:52:51.320> on<00:52:51.400> a<00:52:51.440> spaceship<00:52:51.920> somewhere<00:52:52.240> for<00:52:52.560> whatever<00:52:52.920> reason,<00:52:53.720> you<00:52:53.800> know,<00:52:54.440> technology

00:52:55.480 --> 00:52:57.560
Right.<00:52:55.680> will<00:52:55.760> not<00:52:55.920> permit<00:52:56.200> you<00:52:56.320> to<00:52:56.480> ever<00:52:56.640> contact<00:52:57.000> them<00:52:57.080> again.

00:52:57.560 --> 00:53:00.360
They're<00:52:57.680> getting<00:52:57.880> on<00:52:57.960> a<00:52:58.000> boat,<00:52:58.360> they're<00:52:58.480> going<00:52:58.720> off<00:52:58.880> somewhere<00:52:59.160> and<00:52:59.280> you'll<00:52:59.400> never<00:52:59.640> be<00:52:59.720> able<00:52:59.840> to<00:52:59.920> speak<00:53:00.040> to<00:53:00.080> them<00:53:00.160> again.

00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:05.760
They're<00:53:00.440> going<00:53:00.560> to<00:53:00.640> have<00:53:00.880> have<00:53:01.040> a<00:53:01.120> whole<00:53:01.280> new<00:53:01.440> life<00:53:01.640> somewhere<00:53:01.880> else<00:53:02.560> and<00:53:02.680> it<00:53:02.800> really<00:53:02.960> they<00:53:03.080> wish<00:53:03.320> they<00:53:03.440> could<00:53:03.560> talk<00:53:03.720> to<00:53:03.800> you,<00:53:03.880> but<00:53:04.040> you<00:53:04.120> just<00:53:04.280> can't<00:53:04.560> for<00:53:04.680> some<00:53:04.840> reason.

00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:12.200
And<00:53:05.880> then<00:53:06.080> they<00:53:06.200> get<00:53:06.320> on<00:53:06.400> that<00:53:06.520> boat<00:53:06.920> and<00:53:07.040> then<00:53:07.200> you<00:53:07.320> learn<00:53:08.880> that<00:53:09.120> halfway<00:53:09.680> to<00:53:09.800> wherever<00:53:10.040> they<00:53:10.120> were<00:53:10.240> going,<00:53:10.560> the<00:53:10.680> boat<00:53:10.880> sank<00:53:11.120> and<00:53:11.200> they<00:53:11.320> drowned.

00:53:12.200 --> 00:53:16.880
I<00:53:12.320> think<00:53:12.520> you'd<00:53:12.640> be<00:53:12.760> more<00:53:13.080> upset<00:53:13.760> even<00:53:13.960> though<00:53:14.080> in<00:53:14.200> both<00:53:14.400> cases<00:53:14.920> you<00:53:15.000> were<00:53:15.080> going<00:53:15.200> to<00:53:15.240> be<00:53:15.320> separated<00:53:15.840> from<00:53:15.960> the<00:53:16.040> same<00:53:16.240> amount<00:53:16.480> of<00:53:16.560> time.

00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:24.400
It<00:53:17.000> does<00:53:17.160> seem<00:53:17.400> like<00:53:17.560> we<00:53:17.640> do<00:53:17.840> get<00:53:18.000> upset<00:53:18.400> about<00:53:18.720> something<00:53:19.120> to<00:53:19.240> do<00:53:19.400> with<00:53:19.600> death<00:53:20.000> and<00:53:20.080> if<00:53:20.200> you<00:53:20.720> really<00:53:21.040> believe<00:53:21.880> in<00:53:22.200> an<00:53:22.320> afterlife,<00:53:23.280> it<00:53:23.400> seems<00:53:23.600> like<00:53:23.760> you're<00:53:24.040> you're<00:53:24.160> perhaps

00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:29.040
doing<00:53:24.640> so<00:53:24.960> irrationally.<00:53:26.280> Um<00:53:26.680> so,<00:53:26.920> I<00:53:27.000> think<00:53:27.200> it's<00:53:27.360> an<00:53:27.480> interesting<00:53:28.200> thought<00:53:28.480> experiment.

00:53:29.040 --> 00:53:37.400
I<00:53:29.120> would<00:53:29.320> say<00:53:29.880> in<00:53:30.040> some<00:53:30.400> ways,<00:53:30.640> yes,<00:53:30.960> although<00:53:32.080> I<00:53:32.200> think<00:53:32.480> that<00:53:32.600> part<00:53:32.840> of<00:53:32.920> the<00:53:33.000> reason<00:53:33.400> why<00:53:34.000> you<00:53:34.320> mourn<00:53:34.680> someone<00:53:35.040> who<00:53:35.160> died<00:53:35.520> is<00:53:35.640> because<00:53:36.720> it<00:53:36.960> is<00:53:37.160> an

00:53:37.400 --> 00:53:45.880
ineradicable<00:53:38.280> separation<00:53:39.440> and<00:53:39.720> one<00:53:39.880> that<00:53:40.000> that<00:53:40.120> can't<00:53:40.840> explain<00:53:41.400> or<00:53:41.560> understand<00:53:42.760> and<00:53:44.040> and<00:53:44.160> the<00:53:44.320> other<00:53:45.000> reason<00:53:45.760> I

00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:54.400
think<00:53:46.320> is<00:53:47.280> that<00:53:48.400> you<00:53:48.560> can<00:53:48.840> believe<00:53:49.600> I<00:53:49.760> And<00:53:49.920> by<00:53:50.080> the<00:53:50.200> way,<00:53:50.480> I<00:53:50.560> have<00:53:50.720> met<00:53:50.920> people<00:53:51.600> who<00:53:51.920> literally<00:53:52.400> don't<00:53:52.920> mourn<00:53:53.960> because

00:53:54.400 --> 00:54:03.440
of<00:53:54.520> belief<00:53:54.800> in<00:53:54.920> an<00:53:55.040> afterlife.<00:53:55.600> Like<00:53:55.760> their<00:53:55.880> belief<00:53:56.160> is<00:53:56.280> so<00:53:56.400> strong,<00:53:56.720> they<00:53:56.880> really<00:53:57.280> don't<00:53:57.960> mourn<00:53:58.240> someone<00:53:58.520> who<00:53:58.640> dies,<00:53:58.960> which<00:53:59.360> I<00:53:59.480> find<00:54:01.440> really<00:54:02.600> um

00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:06.040
hard<00:54:04.000> hard<00:54:04.320> to<00:54:04.400> believe,<00:54:05.040> but<00:54:05.160> it's<00:54:05.320> true.

00:54:06.040 --> 00:54:14.440
Um<00:54:06.880> And<00:54:07.080> I<00:54:07.160> think<00:54:07.400> that<00:54:07.560> it<00:54:07.840> is<00:54:08.120> the<00:54:08.760> the<00:54:08.960> mysterious<00:54:10.000> almost<00:54:10.400> the<00:54:10.520> spooky<00:54:11.520> inexplicability<00:54:13.160> of<00:54:13.840> you<00:54:14.240> were

00:54:14.440 --> 00:54:17.800
here<00:54:14.760> today.<00:54:15.080> That's<00:54:15.280> why<00:54:15.400> people<00:54:15.720> always<00:54:15.920> say,<00:54:16.080> "But<00:54:16.280> I<00:54:16.320> just<00:54:16.520> spoke<00:54:16.760> to<00:54:16.840> him<00:54:16.960> yesterday."

00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:20.680
As<00:54:18.000> though<00:54:18.320> people<00:54:18.680> that<00:54:18.880> you<00:54:18.960> speak<00:54:19.200> to<00:54:19.320> yesterday<00:54:19.720> don't<00:54:19.960> die.

00:54:20.680 --> 00:54:24.240
There's<00:54:21.000> something<00:54:21.480> uncanny<00:54:22.200> about<00:54:22.600> it<00:54:23.080> that<00:54:23.320> makes<00:54:23.600> it<00:54:23.800> different.

00:54:24.240 --> 00:54:29.240
I<00:54:24.360> agree<00:54:24.840> from<00:54:25.240> like<00:54:25.600> going<00:54:25.920> to<00:54:26.000> an<00:54:26.240> And<00:54:26.480> even<00:54:26.720> if<00:54:26.840> there's<00:54:27.040> a<00:54:27.120> life<00:54:27.400> somewhere<00:54:27.720> else,<00:54:28.160> it's<00:54:28.320> still<00:54:28.640> uncanny.

00:54:29.240 --> 00:54:31.760
It's<00:54:29.480> still<00:54:30.280> hard<00:54:31.080> to<00:54:31.200> believe.

00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:40.440
And<00:54:32.040> And<00:54:32.400> that's<00:54:32.680> That's<00:54:32.840> one<00:54:32.960> of<00:54:33.040> the<00:54:33.080> reasons<00:54:33.440> why<00:54:34.160> I<00:54:34.280> would<00:54:34.440> have<00:54:34.640> people<00:54:35.520> come<00:54:35.760> to<00:54:35.840> my<00:54:36.040> office<00:54:37.320> and<00:54:38.080> they<00:54:38.240> would<00:54:38.360> have<00:54:38.440> been<00:54:38.520> married<00:54:38.840> 50<00:54:39.200> years,<00:54:39.960> 60

00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:44.280
years.<00:54:41.080> The<00:54:41.240> person's<00:54:41.680> 90<00:54:42.040> years<00:54:42.360> old<00:54:42.720> and<00:54:42.840> they<00:54:42.960> say,<00:54:43.120> "This<00:54:43.320> is<00:54:43.520> so<00:54:43.840> unfair.

00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:50.560
It's<00:54:44.440> so<00:54:44.640> wrong."<00:54:45.400> And<00:54:45.560> it's<00:54:45.760> because<00:54:46.120> the<00:54:46.200> emotional<00:54:46.720> shock<00:54:47.200> of<00:54:47.360> death<00:54:47.760> is<00:54:48.040> so<00:54:48.600> immense.

00:54:50.560 --> 00:54:59.080
Talk<00:54:50.760> to<00:54:50.840> me,<00:54:51.000> if<00:54:51.240> if<00:54:51.360> you<00:54:51.400> don't<00:54:51.560> mind,<00:54:52.000> about<00:54:52.320> the<00:54:52.440> challenge<00:54:53.200> posed<00:54:53.880> to<00:54:55.160> uh<00:54:55.560> Jewish<00:54:55.920> theology<00:54:56.800> by<00:54:57.240> the<00:54:57.400> rising<00:54:57.720> of<00:54:57.800> Christianity.

00:54:59.080 --> 00:55:07.160
Here<00:54:59.280> Here's<00:54:59.640> a<00:54:59.920> a<00:55:00.280> religious<00:55:00.640> tradition<00:55:01.040> that<00:55:01.160> says,<00:55:01.440> "Look,<00:55:01.640> we<00:55:01.800> have<00:55:02.080> these<00:55:02.760> historical<00:55:03.640> texts,<00:55:04.640> these<00:55:04.880> these<00:55:05.120> texts<00:55:05.400> which<00:55:05.560> are<00:55:05.680> really<00:55:06.040> well<00:55:06.200> historically<00:55:06.680> attested

00:55:07.160 --> 00:55:12.000
that<00:55:07.280> a<00:55:07.320> man<00:55:07.640> died<00:55:08.480> and<00:55:08.640> rose<00:55:08.840> from<00:55:08.960> the<00:55:09.040> dead<00:55:09.320> and<00:55:09.440> claims<00:55:09.840> to<00:55:10.000> be<00:55:10.160> the<00:55:10.280> Jewish<00:55:10.600> Messiah."

00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:19.520
In<00:55:12.240> the<00:55:12.320> face<00:55:12.640> of<00:55:12.720> somebody<00:55:13.080> who<00:55:13.240> says,<00:55:13.960> "This<00:55:14.120> is<00:55:14.240> a<00:55:14.280> historically<00:55:14.800> attested<00:55:15.120> event,<00:55:15.480> you<00:55:15.560> know,<00:55:16.200> this<00:55:16.800> if<00:55:17.040> what<00:55:17.160> he<00:55:17.280> was<00:55:17.400> saying<00:55:17.600> was<00:55:17.720> true,<00:55:18.600> then<00:55:19.000> you<00:55:19.120> should<00:55:19.240> accept

00:55:19.520 --> 00:55:23.040
this<00:55:19.640> man<00:55:19.880> as<00:55:19.960> your<00:55:20.200> your<00:55:20.360> lord<00:55:20.560> and<00:55:20.640> god."<00:55:20.840> What<00:55:20.960> what<00:55:21.040> do<00:55:21.120> you<00:55:21.200> say<00:55:21.360> in<00:55:21.480> the<00:55:21.560> in<00:55:21.680> the<00:55:21.720> face<00:55:21.960> of<00:55:22.280> of<00:55:22.520> those<00:55:22.720> ideas?

00:55:23.040 --> 00:55:28.840
So,<00:55:23.200> I<00:55:23.320> mean,<00:55:24.160> the<00:55:25.200> This<00:55:25.480> is,<00:55:25.720> as<00:55:25.880> you<00:55:25.960> can<00:55:26.120> imagine,<00:55:26.520> this<00:55:26.640> has<00:55:26.720> been<00:55:26.840> debated<00:55:27.200> for<00:55:27.320> thousands<00:55:27.720> of<00:55:27.800> years.

00:55:28.840 --> 00:55:33.440
The<00:55:28.960> principal<00:55:29.400> thing<00:55:29.600> I<00:55:29.680> would<00:55:29.840> say<00:55:30.120> is,<00:55:31.000> "Look,<00:55:31.320> the<00:55:31.480> Jewish<00:55:31.760> community<00:55:32.280> was<00:55:32.480> there.

00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:35.800
They<00:55:33.720> met<00:55:34.040> him.<00:55:34.480> They<00:55:34.640> spoke<00:55:35.040> to<00:55:35.160> him.

00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:40.880
They<00:55:36.120> knew<00:55:36.480> him.<00:55:37.200> Somehow<00:55:38.880> he<00:55:39.240> didn't<00:55:39.520> make<00:55:39.760> the<00:55:39.920> impression.

00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:46.920
Like<00:55:41.080> if<00:55:41.200> God's<00:55:41.600> walking<00:55:41.960> on<00:55:42.120> Earth,<00:55:42.400> you<00:55:42.520> would<00:55:42.680> think<00:55:43.080> more<00:55:43.320> than<00:55:43.520> 12<00:55:43.840> people<00:55:44.240> would<00:55:44.440> say,<00:55:44.760> "Oh<00:55:44.840> my<00:55:45.000> God,<00:55:45.280> that's<00:55:45.480> God's<00:55:45.760> walking<00:55:46.120> on<00:55:46.240> Earth."

00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:51.720
Um<00:55:47.280> so<00:55:48.400> I<00:55:48.560> think<00:55:48.920> that<00:55:49.080> Christianity<00:55:49.760> actually<00:55:50.000> has<00:55:50.080> a<00:55:50.120> bigger<00:55:50.400> burden<00:55:50.640> than<00:55:50.760> Judaism.

00:55:51.720 --> 00:55:56.000
If<00:55:51.920> God<00:55:52.240> literally<00:55:52.720> walked<00:55:53.000> the<00:55:53.120> Earth,<00:55:53.400> why<00:55:53.560> didn't<00:55:53.800> the<00:55:53.880> people<00:55:54.160> around<00:55:54.520> him<00:55:54.920> recognize<00:55:55.520> him?

00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:03.160
I<00:55:56.080> wonder<00:55:56.560> I<00:55:56.760> I<00:55:56.800> don't<00:55:57.000> know<00:55:57.080> how<00:55:57.160> much<00:55:57.360> we<00:55:57.440> can<00:55:57.600> know<00:55:57.800> about<00:55:59.880> you<00:56:00.080> know,<00:56:00.200> the<00:56:00.360> the<00:56:00.560> the<00:56:00.720> proportion<00:56:01.120> of<00:56:01.160> people<00:56:01.360> who<00:56:01.480> actually<00:56:01.760> met<00:56:02.000> and<00:56:02.120> interacted<00:56:02.640> with<00:56:02.760> Jesus<00:56:03.040> who

00:56:03.160 --> 00:56:11.760
believe<00:56:03.440> have<00:56:03.680> in<00:56:03.760> the<00:56:03.840> New<00:56:03.960> Testament<00:56:04.480> the<00:56:04.600> Jews<00:56:05.320> saying,<00:56:05.920> you<00:56:06.000> know,<00:56:06.240> gathered<00:56:06.640> around<00:56:06.960> the<00:56:07.040> cross<00:56:08.160> and<00:56:08.640> and<00:56:08.880> Jesus<00:56:09.320> walked<00:56:09.720> among<00:56:10.160> the<00:56:10.280> Jewish<00:56:10.600> community<00:56:11.520> and

00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:20.280
was<00:56:12.000> a<00:56:12.120> Jew.<00:56:12.720> And<00:56:13.200> so<00:56:13.560> it<00:56:13.920> it<00:56:14.040> seems<00:56:14.320> to<00:56:14.440> me<00:56:15.160> a<00:56:15.280> really<00:56:15.760> difficult<00:56:17.080> me<00:56:17.800> unless<00:56:18.360> unless<00:56:18.720> you<00:56:18.840> want<00:56:18.960> to<00:56:19.040> go<00:56:19.200> the<00:56:19.320> route<00:56:19.640> of<00:56:20.160> the

00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:27.640
Jews<00:56:20.560> are<00:56:20.680> wicked,<00:56:21.480> which<00:56:21.960> many<00:56:22.320> Christians<00:56:22.800> did<00:56:23.080> for<00:56:23.240> a<00:56:23.280> long<00:56:23.600> time<00:56:23.920> precisely<00:56:24.560> to<00:56:24.920> to<00:56:25.080> explain<00:56:25.640> this<00:56:26.280> difficulty.

00:56:27.640 --> 00:56:36.080
I<00:56:27.840> think<00:56:28.480> that<00:56:28.680> it's<00:56:28.840> harder<00:56:29.160> for<00:56:29.280> Christians<00:56:29.720> than<00:56:29.880> it<00:56:30.000> is<00:56:30.120> for<00:56:30.240> Jews<00:56:30.520> to<00:56:30.640> explain<00:56:31.560> how<00:56:31.760> this<00:56:31.960> guy<00:56:32.920> proved<00:56:33.240> to<00:56:33.360> be<00:56:34.560> relatively<00:56:35.440> ineffectual.

00:56:36.080 --> 00:56:44.240
That's<00:56:36.240> what<00:56:36.320> I<00:56:36.440> I<00:56:36.640> think<00:56:36.880> that<00:56:37.720> looking<00:56:38.080> at<00:56:38.440> for<00:56:38.560> instance<00:56:38.840> the<00:56:38.920> accounts<00:56:39.240> of<00:56:39.320> the<00:56:39.400> resurrection,<00:56:40.080> I'm<00:56:40.240> often<00:56:40.480> told<00:56:40.800> that<00:56:40.920> what<00:56:41.040> we<00:56:41.160> have<00:56:41.480> is<00:56:42.560> a<00:56:42.880> a<00:56:42.920> sort<00:56:43.080> of<00:56:43.560> group<00:56:43.880> of

00:56:44.240 --> 00:56:49.000
eyewitness<00:56:44.760> testimonies<00:56:45.960> that<00:56:46.080> people<00:56:46.400> claimed<00:56:46.960> to<00:56:47.120> see<00:56:47.520> Jesus<00:56:47.880> after<00:56:48.120> he<00:56:48.240> died.

00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:52.240
And<00:56:49.160> the<00:56:49.240> people<00:56:49.560> who<00:56:49.680> saw<00:56:49.880> Jesus<00:56:50.360> were<00:56:51.120> were<00:56:51.360> quite<00:56:51.840> limited.

00:56:52.240 --> 00:56:57.320
I<00:56:52.280> mean,<00:56:52.520> Paul<00:56:52.920> seems<00:56:53.200> to<00:56:53.320> suggest<00:56:53.600> that<00:56:53.720> 500<00:56:54.160> people<00:56:54.440> saw<00:56:54.560> Jesus<00:56:54.880> at<00:56:54.960> one<00:56:55.080> point,<00:56:55.320> but<00:56:55.440> he's<00:56:55.560> appearing<00:56:55.920> to<00:56:56.000> his<00:56:56.120> disciples.

00:56:57.320 --> 00:57:04.320
And<00:56:57.480> so<00:56:58.480> for<00:56:58.640> the<00:56:58.720> wider<00:56:59.000> community<00:56:59.480> of<00:56:59.560> people,<00:57:00.200> all<00:57:00.440> that<00:57:00.560> they<00:57:00.720> actually<00:57:01.040> had<00:57:01.160> to<00:57:01.280> go<00:57:01.480> on<00:57:01.720> when<00:57:01.840> it<00:57:01.920> comes<00:57:02.040> to<00:57:02.120> the<00:57:02.160> resurrection<00:57:03.120> was<00:57:03.280> the<00:57:03.360> testimony<00:57:03.880> of<00:57:03.960> the<00:57:04.040> people

00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:07.120
that<00:57:04.440> saw<00:57:04.680> him.<00:57:04.960> They<00:57:05.040> didn't<00:57:05.240> actually<00:57:05.480> get<00:57:05.600> to<00:57:05.680> see<00:57:05.800> Jesus<00:57:06.120> for<00:57:06.240> themselves.

00:57:07.120 --> 00:57:15.600
saw<00:57:07.400> Jesus<00:57:07.840> walk<00:57:08.120> in<00:57:08.240> the<00:57:08.320> world.<00:57:09.200> Was<00:57:09.440> Jesus<00:57:10.120> was<00:57:10.720> was<00:57:10.920> Jesus<00:57:11.240> not<00:57:12.160> special<00:57:13.000> enough<00:57:13.800> for<00:57:13.960> the<00:57:14.080> majority<00:57:14.600> of<00:57:14.720> Jews<00:57:15.080> to<00:57:15.200> see

00:57:15.600 --> 00:57:23.880
that<00:57:15.800> God<00:57:16.040> is<00:57:16.160> actually<00:57:16.480> walking<00:57:16.840> on<00:57:17.000> Earth?<00:57:17.760> And<00:57:17.920> also,<00:57:18.920> even<00:57:19.240> if<00:57:19.440> 500<00:57:20.200> people,<00:57:20.960> I<00:57:21.040> mean,<00:57:21.200> we<00:57:21.280> don't<00:57:21.520> have<00:57:21.640> that<00:57:21.840> kind<00:57:22.160> of<00:57:22.640> you<00:57:22.720> know,<00:57:22.800> there's<00:57:23.000> no<00:57:23.120> testimony<00:57:23.680> in

00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:30.680
in<00:57:24.080> Jewish<00:57:24.400> sources<00:57:24.840> at<00:57:24.960> the<00:57:25.080> time,<00:57:25.760> which<00:57:25.960> you<00:57:26.040> would<00:57:26.160> think<00:57:26.360> there<00:57:26.520> would<00:57:26.760> be<00:57:27.120> because<00:57:27.440> after<00:57:27.720> all<00:57:27.800> there'd<00:57:27.960> been<00:57:28.160> other<00:57:29.120> false<00:57:29.400> Messiahs<00:57:29.960> in<00:57:30.080> Jewish<00:57:30.360> history.

00:57:30.680 --> 00:57:34.040
Forgive<00:57:31.000> me<00:57:31.080> for<00:57:31.200> calling<00:57:31.440> Jesus<00:57:31.680> a<00:57:31.720> false<00:57:32.000> Messiah,<00:57:32.240> but<00:57:32.360> that's<00:57:32.520> how<00:57:32.640> he's<00:57:32.760> seen<00:57:32.960> in<00:57:33.040> Jewish<00:57:33.280> history.

00:57:34.040 --> 00:57:42.960
Um<00:57:34.520> and<00:57:34.840> they<00:57:35.040> were<00:57:35.320> very<00:57:35.720> widespread<00:57:36.640> and<00:57:37.040> like<00:57:37.320> Shabbetai<00:57:37.840> Zevi<00:57:38.560> in<00:57:38.760> the<00:57:39.440> in<00:57:39.640> the<00:57:39.920> 16th<00:57:40.400> century,<00:57:41.600> um<00:57:42.080> six

00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:47.560
1600s,<00:57:44.360> um<00:57:45.720> swept<00:57:46.280> across<00:57:46.600> the<00:57:46.680> Jewish<00:57:47.000> world.

00:57:47.560 --> 00:57:52.520
And<00:57:47.760> people<00:57:48.160> who<00:57:48.400> met<00:57:48.640> him<00:57:49.000> were<00:57:49.280> immediately<00:57:49.880> impressed<00:57:50.320> and<00:57:50.440> thought,<00:57:50.720> "Oh<00:57:50.800> my<00:57:50.920> god,<00:57:51.120> this<00:57:51.280> really<00:57:51.480> is<00:57:51.640> the<00:57:51.720> Messiah."

00:57:52.520 --> 00:57:59.840
So,<00:57:53.280> the<00:57:53.400> bottom<00:57:53.760> line<00:57:54.040> is<00:57:54.280> I<00:57:54.360> don't<00:57:54.720> think<00:57:55.480> that<00:57:55.720> Jesus<00:57:56.120> is<00:57:56.280> a<00:57:56.360> theological<00:57:57.480> or<00:57:57.760> challenge<00:57:58.360> to<00:57:58.480> the<00:57:58.600> Jewish<00:57:58.880> tradition.

00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:07.040
Um,<00:58:00.200> when<00:58:00.360> people<00:58:00.720> ask<00:58:01.040> me<00:58:01.240> how<00:58:01.440> Judaism<00:58:01.920> sees<00:58:02.200> Jesus,<00:58:03.160> we<00:58:03.280> see<00:58:03.400> him<00:58:03.560> as<00:58:03.640> a<00:58:03.720> teacher<00:58:04.080> who<00:58:04.240> said<00:58:04.440> some<00:58:04.640> things<00:58:04.880> I<00:58:04.960> agree<00:58:05.240> with,<00:58:05.440> some<00:58:05.640> things<00:58:05.840> I<00:58:05.920> don't<00:58:06.160> agree<00:58:06.360> with.

00:58:07.040 --> 00:58:15.520
There<00:58:07.200> are<00:58:07.280> lots<00:58:07.600> of<00:58:07.760> reasons<00:58:08.360> to<00:58:08.480> me<00:58:08.720> why<00:58:09.720> um<00:58:10.440> Jews<00:58:10.800> didn't<00:58:11.040> accept<00:58:11.560> Jesus<00:58:12.560> as<00:58:12.760> anything<00:58:13.120> more<00:58:13.320> than<00:58:14.400> uh<00:58:15.400> a

00:58:15.520 --> 00:58:20.280
gifted<00:58:16.160> teacher<00:58:16.880> and<00:58:17.120> spinner<00:58:17.520> of<00:58:17.640> parables<00:58:18.720> and<00:58:19.200> and<00:58:19.400> a<00:58:19.440> committed<00:58:19.880> Jew.

00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:28.680
And<00:58:20.480> on<00:58:20.640> the<00:58:20.760> on<00:58:20.880> the<00:58:21.320> on<00:58:21.480> the<00:58:22.800> idea<00:58:23.240> of<00:58:23.760> things<00:58:24.040> that<00:58:24.200> are,<00:58:25.680> morally,<00:58:26.320> let's<00:58:26.640> say<00:58:26.880> that's<00:58:27.280> the<00:58:27.400> sort<00:58:27.520> of<00:58:27.600> historical<00:58:28.120> case<00:58:28.360> about

00:58:28.680 --> 00:58:31.080
who<00:58:28.800> Jesus<00:58:29.080> claimed<00:58:29.280> to<00:58:29.360> be,<00:58:29.560> but<00:58:29.720> also<00:58:30.080> talking<00:58:30.360> about<00:58:30.480> his<00:58:30.560> moral<00:58:30.760> teachings.

00:58:31.080 --> 00:58:33.080
There<00:58:31.280> you<00:58:31.360> say<00:58:31.480> there<00:58:31.600> are<00:58:31.640> things<00:58:31.840> that<00:58:31.960> he<00:58:32.040> said<00:58:32.240> you<00:58:32.320> didn't<00:58:32.600> like.

00:58:33.080 --> 00:58:38.160
Yes.<00:58:33.640> Um,<00:58:33.880> especially<00:58:34.280> given<00:58:34.440> the<00:58:34.520> fact<00:58:34.680> that<00:58:34.800> you<00:58:34.920> say<00:58:35.080> he's<00:58:35.440> a<00:58:35.520> committed<00:58:35.920> Jew,<00:58:36.680> but<00:58:36.840> here<00:58:37.000> he<00:58:37.080> is<00:58:37.200> saying<00:58:37.440> things<00:58:37.600> that<00:58:37.680> you<00:58:37.760> don't<00:58:37.920> like.

00:58:38.160 --> 00:58:42.200
What<00:58:38.280> are<00:58:38.320> some<00:58:38.440> examples<00:58:38.920> of<00:58:39.000> the<00:58:39.080> things<00:58:39.360> that<00:58:39.480> he<00:58:39.560> did?<00:58:39.680> Abandon<00:58:40.040> your<00:58:40.320> father<00:58:40.560> and<00:58:40.680> mother<00:58:41.480> to<00:58:41.600> follow<00:58:41.880> me.

00:58:42.200 --> 00:58:48.120
I<00:58:42.320> think<00:58:42.560> that<00:58:42.680> that's<00:58:42.960> not<00:58:43.240> a<00:58:43.720> a<00:58:43.800> principle<00:58:44.280> that<00:58:44.480> I<00:58:44.600> would<00:58:45.680> adhere<00:58:46.040> to<00:58:46.240> or<00:58:46.360> when<00:58:46.520> he<00:58:46.640> curses<00:58:47.080> a<00:58:47.160> tree.

00:58:48.120 --> 00:58:56.400
Um,<00:58:48.840> I<00:58:48.960> mean,<00:58:49.160> there<00:58:49.320> are<00:58:49.360> some<00:58:49.640> things<00:58:49.920> about<00:58:50.280> Jesus<00:58:50.680> that<00:58:51.160> that<00:58:51.680> that<00:58:51.920> I<00:58:52.040> would<00:58:52.200> explain<00:58:52.760> as<00:58:52.920> a<00:58:52.960> Christian<00:58:53.920> the<00:58:54.080> way<00:58:54.360> I<00:58:54.520> explain<00:58:55.680> depredations<00:58:56.320> in

00:58:56.400 --> 00:59:04.800
the<00:58:56.480> Hebrew<00:58:56.760> Bible,<00:58:57.120> which<00:58:57.280> is<00:58:57.640> this<00:58:57.800> is<00:58:57.920> an<00:58:58.120> ancient<00:58:58.560> person<00:58:59.400> and<00:58:59.560> he<00:58:59.760> has<00:59:00.120> ideas<00:59:01.200> of<00:59:01.440> his<00:59:01.720> time<00:59:02.280> just<00:59:02.680> like<00:59:03.720> they<00:59:03.880> did<00:59:04.080> a<00:59:04.120> thousand<00:59:04.560> years

00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:11.480
before.<00:59:05.360> Sort<00:59:05.840> of<00:59:05.920> what<00:59:06.040> I<00:59:06.080> was<00:59:06.160> about<00:59:06.360> to<00:59:06.440> say<00:59:06.640> is<00:59:06.760> that<00:59:06.920> like,<00:59:07.760> you<00:59:07.840> know,<00:59:08.240> you<00:59:08.360> can<00:59:08.480> point<00:59:08.720> to<00:59:08.800> the<00:59:08.920> character<00:59:09.240> of<00:59:09.320> Jesus<00:59:09.640> and<00:59:09.760> say<00:59:09.960> that,<00:59:10.520> you<00:59:10.640> know,<00:59:10.840> that<00:59:11.160> the<00:59:11.280> fig

00:59:11.480 --> 00:59:13.760
tree<00:59:11.640> didn't<00:59:11.840> have<00:59:11.960> any<00:59:12.120> figs<00:59:12.440> and<00:59:12.520> so<00:59:12.640> he<00:59:12.760> cursed<00:59:13.160> it<00:59:13.280> and<00:59:13.400> it<00:59:13.520> died.

00:59:13.760 --> 00:59:17.800
That's<00:59:13.920> very<00:59:14.080> strange<00:59:14.680> and<00:59:14.800> and<00:59:14.960> seemingly<00:59:15.400> out<00:59:15.520> of<00:59:15.600> accord<00:59:16.080> with<00:59:16.200> the<00:59:16.280> character<00:59:16.640> of<00:59:16.760> Jesus.

00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:23.680
Um,<00:59:18.320> or<00:59:18.440> certain<00:59:18.680> things<00:59:18.880> that<00:59:19.000> he<00:59:19.120> says,<00:59:19.440> you<00:59:19.520> know,<00:59:19.640> you'll<00:59:19.760> be<00:59:19.920> forgiven<00:59:20.360> for<00:59:20.560> absolutely<00:59:21.080> anything<00:59:21.920> except<00:59:22.280> blaspheming<00:59:22.720> the<00:59:22.800> Holy<00:59:23.000> Spirit.

00:59:23.680 --> 00:59:25.720
That<00:59:23.840> you'll<00:59:23.960> never<00:59:24.160> be<00:59:24.280> forgiven<00:59:24.600> for<00:59:24.760> and<00:59:24.840> it's<00:59:24.960> sort<00:59:25.080> of<00:59:25.160> like,<00:59:25.360> "Whoa."

00:59:25.720 --> 00:59:33.240
It<00:59:25.840> sends<00:59:26.080> a<00:59:26.160> shiver<00:59:26.480> down<00:59:26.640> your<00:59:26.760> spine.<00:59:27.720> But<00:59:27.880> I<00:59:27.920> mean<00:59:28.080> somebody<00:59:28.320> could<00:59:28.440> just<00:59:28.640> say<00:59:29.120> as<00:59:29.680> you<00:59:29.840> said<00:59:30.040> of<00:59:30.720> elements<00:59:30.960> of<00:59:31.040> the<00:59:31.120> Hebrew<00:59:31.320> Bible<00:59:31.640> earlier,<00:59:32.080> look<00:59:32.240> I<00:59:32.280> mean<00:59:33.080> Right.

00:59:33.240 --> 00:59:39.520
there<00:59:33.320> were<00:59:33.400> things<00:59:33.640> that<00:59:33.760> people<00:59:34.040> tried<00:59:34.400> to<00:59:34.520> record<00:59:35.000> that<00:59:35.160> they<00:59:35.880> either<00:59:36.080> got<00:59:36.320> wrong<00:59:36.680> or<00:59:36.800> that<00:59:36.920> he<00:59:37.000> didn't<00:59:37.160> actually<00:59:37.400> say<00:59:38.280> and<00:59:38.440> that's<00:59:38.560> sort<00:59:38.680> of<00:59:38.760> going<00:59:39.000> on<00:59:39.120> in<00:59:39.240> the<00:59:39.400> in

00:59:39.520 --> 00:59:46.040
the<00:59:39.800> in<00:59:39.880> the<00:59:39.960> New<00:59:40.080> Testament<00:59:40.440> canon<00:59:40.760> as<00:59:40.880> well.<00:59:41.480> Yes,<00:59:41.840> I<00:59:41.920> mean<00:59:42.120> that's<00:59:42.800> I<00:59:43.040> I<00:59:43.520> if<00:59:43.680> a<00:59:43.720> Christian<00:59:44.080> was<00:59:44.240> to<00:59:44.280> make<00:59:44.440> that<00:59:44.600> argument<00:59:44.920> I<00:59:44.960> have<00:59:45.080> no<00:59:45.200> problem<00:59:45.560> with<00:59:45.720> it.

00:59:46.040 --> 00:59:50.160
Look,<00:59:46.200> I<00:59:46.400> I<00:59:46.760> I<00:59:47.360> I<00:59:47.520> am<00:59:47.760> a<00:59:47.880> promoter<00:59:48.520> of<00:59:48.640> Christianity<00:59:49.440> in<00:59:49.560> general.

00:59:50.160 --> 00:59:56.920
That<00:59:50.360> is<00:59:50.960> as<00:59:51.320> as<00:59:51.600> a<00:59:52.360> as<00:59:52.600> the<00:59:52.720> creator<00:59:53.200> of<00:59:53.320> the<00:59:53.440> West,<00:59:53.800> I<00:59:53.840> think<00:59:54.000> Christianity<00:59:54.480> has<00:59:54.600> given<00:59:54.840> enormous<00:59:55.400> benefits<00:59:55.840> to<00:59:55.960> the<00:59:56.080> world.

00:59:56.920 --> 01:00:03.480
But<00:59:57.120> theologically<00:59:57.960> it<00:59:58.080> doesn't<00:59:58.400> I<00:59:58.480> remember<00:59:58.800> when<00:59:58.880> I<00:59:58.920> was<00:59:59.040> in<00:59:59.160> eighth<00:59:59.320> grade<00:59:59.640> we<00:59:59.760> had<00:59:59.960> a<01:00:00.920> I<01:00:01.240> I<01:00:01.400> went<01:00:01.680> to<01:00:01.840> a<01:00:01.960> Jewish<01:00:02.400> day<01:00:02.600> school.

01:00:03.480 --> 01:00:11.600
And<01:00:03.640> they<01:00:03.760> brought<01:00:04.200> to<01:00:04.280> their<01:00:04.480> credit<01:00:04.840> a<01:00:04.880> Baptist<01:00:05.320> preacher<01:00:05.840> to<01:00:05.960> tell<01:00:06.200> us<01:00:06.960> the<01:00:07.080> theology<01:00:07.760> of<01:00:08.480> and<01:00:09.280> uh<01:00:09.880> and<01:00:10.800> he<01:00:10.960> told<01:00:11.200> us<01:00:11.280> that<01:00:11.400> we<01:00:11.480> were

01:00:11.600 --> 01:00:19.000
all<01:00:11.720> going<01:00:11.920> to<01:00:12.000> hell.<01:00:12.920> Um,<01:00:13.360> he<01:00:13.520> said,<01:00:13.760> "Look,<01:00:13.920> you're<01:00:14.040> nice<01:00:15.240> boys<01:00:15.480> and<01:00:15.560> girls,<01:00:15.960> but<01:00:16.120> I<01:00:16.200> want<01:00:16.400> you<01:00:16.480> to<01:00:16.520> know<01:00:16.680> that<01:00:16.800> you<01:00:16.920> have<01:00:17.040> to<01:00:17.120> accept<01:00:17.440> Jesus<01:00:17.800> to<01:00:18.000> which<01:00:18.240> okay."

01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:22.680
I<01:00:19.120> was<01:00:19.320> good<01:00:19.600> for<01:00:20.120> for<01:00:20.320> us<01:00:20.520> to<01:00:20.640> know<01:00:20.960> that<01:00:21.120> that<01:00:21.280> theology<01:00:21.840> existed<01:00:22.240> in<01:00:22.320> the<01:00:22.400> world.

01:00:22.680 --> 01:00:27.960
I<01:00:22.720> don't<01:00:22.880> think<01:00:23.000> it<01:00:23.080> did<01:00:23.200> us<01:00:23.320> any<01:00:23.480> harm.<01:00:24.200> But<01:00:24.280> I<01:00:24.360> remember<01:00:24.720> saying<01:00:25.040> to<01:00:25.120> him<01:00:25.200> I<01:00:25.280> thought<01:00:25.600> I<01:00:25.640> was<01:00:25.880> I<01:00:26.000> would<01:00:26.240> I<01:00:26.320> was<01:00:26.480> going<01:00:26.600> to<01:00:26.640> try<01:00:26.840> to<01:00:26.920> catch<01:00:27.240> him.

01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:30.920
So<01:00:28.040> I<01:00:28.080> said<01:00:28.320> to<01:00:28.360> him<01:00:28.440> at<01:00:28.520> the<01:00:28.600> time,<01:00:28.840> "Is<01:00:28.960> Jesus<01:00:29.280> perfect?"<01:00:29.680> And<01:00:29.760> he<01:00:29.880> said,<01:00:30.040> "Yes."

01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:34.080
I<01:00:31.000> said,<01:00:31.200> "Is<01:00:31.280> God<01:00:31.560> perfect?"<01:00:32.000> And<01:00:32.080> he<01:00:32.160> said,<01:00:32.360> "Yes."<01:00:32.560> And<01:00:32.640> I<01:00:32.680> said,<01:00:32.880> "Is<01:00:33.080> the<01:00:33.160> Holy<01:00:33.400> Spirit<01:00:33.760> perfect?"

01:00:34.080 --> 01:00:38.480
And<01:00:34.160> he<01:00:34.200> said,<01:00:34.360> "Yes."<01:00:34.520> And<01:00:34.600> I<01:00:34.640> said,<01:00:34.760> "Well,<01:00:34.880> by<01:00:35.040> definition<01:00:36.200> perfection<01:00:36.800> doesn't<01:00:37.160> need<01:00:37.400> anything<01:00:37.760> added<01:00:38.080> to<01:00:38.240> it.

01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:47.320
So<01:00:38.840> two<01:00:39.040> of<01:00:39.160> the<01:00:39.240> three<01:00:39.520> of<01:00:39.600> them<01:00:39.800> are<01:00:39.880> superfluous."<01:00:41.160> And<01:00:41.640> and<01:00:41.800> I<01:00:41.880> still<01:00:42.200> find<01:00:42.640> like<01:00:43.240> I<01:00:43.400> understand<01:00:44.280> that<01:00:44.440> the<01:00:44.520> contradiction<01:00:45.240> is<01:00:45.400> built<01:00:45.760> into<01:00:46.040> Christian<01:00:46.400> theology.

01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:54.720
But<01:00:47.480> for<01:00:47.600> someone<01:00:47.920> looking<01:00:48.200> from<01:00:48.400> the<01:00:48.560> outside<01:00:49.960> it<01:00:50.080> makes<01:00:50.320> much<01:00:50.680> more<01:00:50.840> sense<01:00:51.440> to<01:00:51.560> have<01:00:51.760> one<01:00:52.080> unitary<01:00:52.680> God<01:00:53.240> than<01:00:53.400> to<01:00:53.520> have<01:00:53.640> a<01:00:53.680> trinity.

01:00:54.720 --> 01:00:58.760
And<01:00:54.920> so<01:00:55.520> I<01:00:55.640> don't<01:00:56.000> have<01:00:56.160> a<01:00:56.240> problem<01:00:56.680> thinking<01:00:57.000> of<01:00:57.080> Jesus<01:00:57.480> as<01:00:57.600> just<01:00:57.840> a<01:00:57.880> person.

01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:03.840
It<01:00:58.960> fits<01:00:59.440> with<01:00:59.600> my<01:00:59.720> theology<01:01:00.400> and<01:01:00.520> it<01:01:00.680> fits<01:01:00.920> also<01:01:01.240> with<01:01:01.440> my<01:01:02.160> philosophical<01:01:02.840> approach<01:01:03.200> to<01:01:03.280> religion.

01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:10.360
Judaism<01:01:04.400> has<01:01:04.640> a<01:01:04.720> lot<01:01:04.840> in<01:01:04.960> common<01:01:05.240> with<01:01:05.360> Islam<01:01:06.160> in<01:01:06.440> in<01:01:06.600> that<01:01:06.840> sense<01:01:07.120> in<01:01:07.200> that<01:01:07.320> perspective<01:01:07.760> in<01:01:07.920> in<01:01:08.000> its<01:01:08.160> treatment<01:01:08.520> of<01:01:08.800> the<01:01:08.880> figure<01:01:09.120> of<01:01:09.200> Jesus<01:01:09.560> and<01:01:09.760> and<01:01:09.960> the<01:01:10.040> message<01:01:10.280> of

01:01:10.360 --> 01:01:18.040
Christianity.<01:01:10.960> I<01:01:11.000> mean<01:01:11.520> I<01:01:11.600> think<01:01:12.280> Islam<01:01:12.720> will<01:01:12.840> see<01:01:13.800> well<01:01:13.960> it<01:01:14.040> sees<01:01:14.240> Jesus<01:01:14.520> as<01:01:14.600> a<01:01:14.640> prophet<01:01:15.080> and<01:01:15.240> sees<01:01:15.480> the<01:01:15.520> Gospels<01:01:16.120> as<01:01:16.360> as<01:01:16.560> containing<01:01:17.080> important<01:01:17.440> information<01:01:17.880> just

01:01:18.040 --> 01:01:24.520
that<01:01:18.120> they've<01:01:18.280> been<01:01:18.400> corrupted<01:01:19.080> whereas<01:01:19.880> Judaism<01:01:20.360> would<01:01:20.520> say<01:01:21.200> yeah,<01:01:22.400> he's<01:01:22.560> sort<01:01:22.720> of<01:01:23.080> religiously<01:01:24.080> irrelevant.

01:01:24.520 --> 01:01:31.720
Jesus<01:01:24.680> actually,<01:01:24.960> right,<01:01:25.160> exactly,<01:01:25.600> does<01:01:25.760> not<01:01:26.000> play<01:01:26.240> a<01:01:26.320> big<01:01:26.560> role<01:01:26.640> like<01:01:26.840> in<01:01:26.960> my<01:01:27.200> Jewish<01:01:27.600> education,<01:01:28.600> it<01:01:28.800> was<01:01:29.000> just<01:01:29.240> not<01:01:30.360> he<01:01:30.760> wasn't<01:01:31.040> important.

01:01:31.720 --> 01:01:34.560
He's<01:01:31.760> like<01:01:31.920> Muhammad<01:01:32.560> in<01:01:33.080> Islam.<01:01:33.280> equivalent<01:01:33.760> to<01:01:33.840> Muhammad.

01:01:34.560 --> 01:01:40.120
Yeah,<01:01:34.920> which<01:01:35.120> is<01:01:35.320> which<01:01:35.520> is<01:01:36.000> where<01:01:36.760> there<01:01:37.080> is<01:01:37.200> an<01:01:37.320> important<01:01:37.760> diversion<01:01:38.160> between<01:01:38.440> those<01:01:38.640> two<01:01:38.840> those<01:01:39.040> two<01:01:39.160> world<01:01:39.320> religions.

01:01:40.120 --> 01:01:48.360
Um,<01:01:40.920> one<01:01:41.080> of<01:01:41.200> the<01:01:41.360> things<01:01:41.760> that<01:01:41.880> Christianity<01:01:42.760> did<01:01:43.520> was<01:01:43.720> have<01:01:43.880> a<01:01:43.920> sort<01:01:44.120> of<01:01:44.160> debate<01:01:44.560> in<01:01:44.680> its<01:01:44.880> in<01:01:45.000> its<01:01:45.360> early<01:01:45.640> church<01:01:46.040> about<01:01:47.080> what<01:01:47.240> sort<01:01:47.400> of<01:01:47.520> Jewish<01:01:47.800> practices<01:01:48.280> and

01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:50.720
Jewish<01:01:48.560> customs<01:01:49.000> needed<01:01:49.280> to<01:01:49.360> remain<01:01:49.760> after<01:01:50.200> Jesus.

01:01:50.720 --> 01:01:57.560
And<01:01:50.840> so<01:01:51.520> Christians<01:01:52.520> no<01:01:52.640> longer<01:01:52.920> observe<01:01:53.360> the<01:01:53.440> same<01:01:54.000> food<01:01:54.280> laws,<01:01:55.120> they<01:01:55.240> no<01:01:55.360> longer<01:01:55.800> circumcise<01:01:56.440> their<01:01:56.560> children.

01:01:57.560 --> 01:02:01.640
Um,<01:01:58.520> do<01:01:58.760> you<01:01:58.840> feel<01:01:59.040> like<01:01:59.200> that<01:01:59.680> is<01:02:00.160> a<01:02:00.440> a<01:02:00.720> a<01:02:00.760> terrible<01:02:01.200> mistake?

01:02:01.640 --> 01:02:05.080
I<01:02:01.680> mean,<01:02:01.880> how<01:02:02.320> integral<01:02:02.840> do<01:02:02.920> you<01:02:03.000> think<01:02:03.200> that<01:02:03.360> these<01:02:03.680> elements<01:02:04.040> are<01:02:04.240> to<01:02:04.560> to<01:02:04.680> Judaism?

01:02:05.080 --> 01:02:07.680
I<01:02:05.120> mean,<01:02:05.240> we<01:02:05.360> spoke<01:02:05.600> earlier<01:02:06.320> mistake<01:02:06.680> if<01:02:06.800> you<01:02:06.880> want<01:02:07.000> to<01:02:07.080> be<01:02:07.160> Jewish.

01:02:07.680 --> 01:02:09.800
It's<01:02:07.840> not<01:02:08.000> a<01:02:08.040> terrible<01:02:08.360> mistake<01:02:08.640> if<01:02:08.760> you<01:02:08.880> wish<01:02:09.000> to<01:02:09.120> be<01:02:09.200> Christian.

01:02:09.800 --> 01:02:14.320
We<01:02:09.960> spoke<01:02:10.200> earlier<01:02:10.440> about<01:02:11.080> how<01:02:11.480> um<01:02:12.080> I<01:02:12.160> said,<01:02:12.320> do<01:02:12.440> I<01:02:12.480> need<01:02:12.600> to<01:02:12.680> believe<01:02:12.920> in<01:02:13.000> God<01:02:13.240> to<01:02:13.360> be<01:02:13.680> to<01:02:13.760> be<01:02:13.840> Jewish?

01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:16.600
And<01:02:14.440> you<01:02:14.560> said,<01:02:15.120> it<01:02:15.320> sort<01:02:15.480> of<01:02:15.640> depends<01:02:15.960> on<01:02:16.240> on<01:02:16.360> who<01:02:16.480> you<01:02:16.560> are.

01:02:16.600 --> 01:02:20.760
But<01:02:16.760> but<01:02:17.200> immediately<01:02:17.520> you<01:02:17.600> said,<01:02:17.760> no.<01:02:18.360> I<01:02:18.440> mean,<01:02:18.560> do<01:02:18.640> I<01:02:18.680> need<01:02:18.840> to<01:02:18.880> be<01:02:19.000> circumcised<01:02:19.560> to<01:02:19.600> be<01:02:19.680> Jewish?

01:02:20.760 --> 01:02:27.240
Um,<01:02:21.320> you<01:02:21.560> are<01:02:21.840> if<01:02:22.000> you're<01:02:22.160> born<01:02:22.480> Jewish,<01:02:22.840> you<01:02:22.960> are<01:02:23.040> Jewish<01:02:23.400> whether<01:02:23.600> you're<01:02:23.720> circumcised<01:02:24.320> or<01:02:24.400> not,<01:02:24.680> but<01:02:24.840> it<01:02:24.960> is<01:02:25.080> a<01:02:25.120> mandate<01:02:25.600> of<01:02:25.640> the<01:02:25.760> tradition<01:02:26.160> to<01:02:26.240> be<01:02:26.360> circumcised.

01:02:27.240 --> 01:02:32.160
So<01:02:27.280> it's<01:02:27.400> a<01:02:27.480> mandate<01:02:28.120> to<01:02:28.200> be<01:02:28.280> circumcised,<01:02:28.840> but<01:02:28.960> not<01:02:29.080> a<01:02:29.120> mandate<01:02:29.640> to<01:02:29.760> believe<01:02:30.000> in<01:02:30.120> God.

01:02:32.160 --> 01:02:38.080
Well,<01:02:32.960> both<01:02:33.240> of<01:02:33.320> them<01:02:33.680> both<01:02:33.920> of<01:02:34.000> them<01:02:34.240> are<01:02:34.360> mandates<01:02:34.800> of<01:02:34.920> the<01:02:35.000> tradition,<01:02:35.440> but<01:02:35.600> you<01:02:35.720> asked<01:02:35.920> me,<01:02:36.040> could<01:02:36.240> you<01:02:36.320> be<01:02:36.440> Jewish<01:02:36.760> without<01:02:37.120> it?

01:02:38.080 --> 01:02:42.520
They're<01:02:38.200> both<01:02:38.480> mandates<01:02:38.880> of<01:02:38.960> the<01:02:39.040> tradition.<01:02:39.320> The<01:02:39.400> first<01:02:40.000> The<01:02:40.080> first<01:02:40.400> of<01:02:40.480> the<01:02:40.560> 10<01:02:40.760> Commandments<01:02:41.320> is,<01:02:41.520> I<01:02:41.600> am<01:02:41.720> the<01:02:41.800> Lord<01:02:42.000> your<01:02:42.080> God.

01:02:42.520 --> 01:02:48.360
So<01:02:42.720> it's<01:02:42.880> pretty<01:02:43.080> much<01:02:43.240> a<01:02:43.280> mandate<01:02:43.720> of<01:02:43.760> the<01:02:43.880> tradition.<01:02:44.720> But<01:02:44.960> if<01:02:45.120> you<01:02:45.240> don't<01:02:45.640> believe<01:02:45.960> in<01:02:46.040> God,<01:02:46.480> then<01:02:46.640> they<01:02:46.720> don't<01:02:46.960> say,<01:02:47.160> you<01:02:47.200> are<01:02:47.520> no<01:02:47.640> longer<01:02:47.960> Jewish.

01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:54.120
But<01:02:48.520> but<01:02:49.120> just<01:02:49.360> to<01:02:49.760> clarify<01:02:50.120> what<01:02:50.320> we<01:02:50.400> were<01:02:50.480> talking<01:02:50.680> about<01:02:50.840> earlier,<01:02:51.880> if<01:02:52.040> you<01:02:52.160> are<01:02:52.280> a<01:02:52.320> Jew,<01:02:52.600> you<01:02:52.800> should<01:02:53.160> believe<01:02:53.480> in<01:02:53.560> God.

01:02:54.120 --> 01:02:56.120
I<01:02:54.240> think<01:02:54.480> so.<01:02:54.800> You<01:02:54.920> think<01:02:55.160> so.<01:02:55.480> I<01:02:55.640> do.

01:02:56.120 --> 01:02:58.960
Can<01:02:56.560> we<01:02:56.680> can<01:02:56.760> we<01:02:56.840> talk<01:02:57.040> about<01:02:57.240> circumcision,<01:02:57.880> where<01:02:58.040> this<01:02:58.160> comes<01:02:58.440> from?

01:02:58.960 --> 01:03:07.560
Like<01:02:59.240> what<01:02:59.440> like<01:02:59.840> what<01:03:00.080> why<01:03:00.240> why<01:03:01.080> what<01:03:01.360> the<01:03:01.440> Bible<01:03:01.800> and<01:03:01.920> it<01:03:01.960> was<01:03:02.080> supposed<01:03:02.360> to<01:03:02.440> mark<01:03:02.800> in<01:03:02.920> your<01:03:03.080> flesh<01:03:03.480> the<01:03:03.600> covenant<01:03:04.320> with<01:03:04.520> Abraham<01:03:05.120> and<01:03:06.040> and<01:03:06.480> all<01:03:06.720> the<01:03:06.840> generations<01:03:07.440> that

01:03:07.560 --> 01:03:15.720
followed.<01:03:08.040> And<01:03:08.160> I<01:03:08.280> suppose<01:03:09.280> that<01:03:09.520> it<01:03:09.680> came<01:03:09.920> from<01:03:10.360> like<01:03:10.560> the<01:03:10.680> idea<01:03:11.080> that<01:03:11.760> a<01:03:11.880> mark<01:03:12.280> in<01:03:12.400> the<01:03:12.480> generative<01:03:13.200> organ<01:03:14.040> would<01:03:14.320> be<01:03:15.160> carrying<01:03:15.640> the

01:03:15.720 --> 01:03:18.360
seed<01:03:16.120> forward<01:03:16.880> and<01:03:17.040> that<01:03:17.160> that's<01:03:17.440> where<01:03:17.600> it<01:03:17.720> came<01:03:17.880> from.

01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:27.680
not<01:03:19.200> a<01:03:19.280> great<01:03:20.520> there's<01:03:20.960> not<01:03:21.080> like<01:03:21.320> a<01:03:21.960> a<01:03:22.600> a<01:03:23.640> a<01:03:23.840> go-to<01:03:24.320> agreed-upon<01:03:24.840> explanation<01:03:25.320> of<01:03:25.440> why<01:03:25.560> specifically<01:03:26.280> this<01:03:27.160> action

01:03:27.680 --> 01:03:33.800
is<01:03:27.920> the<01:03:28.040> way<01:03:28.440> of<01:03:28.880> indicating<01:03:29.560> only<01:03:30.000> I<01:03:30.040> I<01:03:30.080> get<01:03:30.240> to<01:03:30.320> agree<01:03:30.520> upon<01:03:30.800> only<01:03:31.040> in<01:03:31.120> the<01:03:31.200> sense<01:03:31.560> that<01:03:31.800> it's<01:03:32.360> was<01:03:32.560> done<01:03:32.840> to<01:03:33.000> Abraham.

01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:42.640
So,<01:03:34.520> that's<01:03:35.400> I've<01:03:35.760> I've<01:03:35.880> heard<01:03:36.200> I<01:03:36.280> mean,<01:03:36.480> a<01:03:36.520> lot<01:03:36.680> of<01:03:36.760> people<01:03:37.480> make<01:03:37.680> this<01:03:37.920> criticism<01:03:38.480> of<01:03:38.640> Judaism<01:03:40.240> this<01:03:40.480> this<01:03:41.200> this<01:03:41.320> sort<01:03:41.440> of<01:03:42.200> picture

01:03:42.640 --> 01:03:46.160
this<01:03:43.240> circumcision<01:03:44.000> as<01:03:44.280> a<01:03:44.360> form<01:03:44.520> of<01:03:44.600> genital<01:03:44.960> mutilation.

01:03:46.160 --> 01:03:49.880
And<01:03:46.360> a<01:03:46.440> lot<01:03:46.640> of<01:03:46.720> people<01:03:46.880> are<01:03:46.960> very<01:03:47.080> troubled<01:03:47.480> by<01:03:47.600> this.<01:03:47.800> I've<01:03:47.880> seen<01:03:48.080> it<01:03:48.360> it's<01:03:48.520> sort<01:03:48.640> of<01:03:48.880> debated<01:03:49.320> back<01:03:49.520> and<01:03:49.640> forth.

01:03:49.880 --> 01:03:52.760
I<01:03:49.920> know<01:03:50.040> Christopher<01:03:50.320> Hitchens<01:03:50.720> has<01:03:50.800> made<01:03:50.960> a<01:03:51.000> big<01:03:51.520> song<01:03:51.680> and<01:03:51.760> dance<01:03:52.000> about<01:03:52.240> this,<01:03:52.480> too.

01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:55.520
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01:03:55.520 --> 01:04:02.200
I'm<01:03:55.920> sure<01:03:56.320> he<01:03:56.480> said<01:03:56.640> at<01:03:56.720> one<01:03:56.840> point,<01:03:57.080> and<01:03:57.240> I<01:03:57.280> don't<01:03:57.440> know<01:03:57.560> if<01:03:57.680> this<01:03:57.800> is<01:03:57.880> true,<01:03:58.000> but<01:03:58.120> he<01:03:58.240> said<01:03:58.400> that<01:03:58.520> Maimonides<01:03:59.560> writes<01:04:00.480> that<01:04:00.640> the<01:04:00.720> purpose<01:04:01.160> of<01:04:01.280> circumcision,<01:04:01.880> at<01:04:02.000> least

01:04:02.200 --> 01:04:05.120
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01:04:05.120 --> 01:04:14.680
Well,<01:04:05.440> Maimonides<01:04:06.680> Maimonides<01:04:07.360> was<01:04:07.680> an<01:04:07.840> extraordinarily<01:04:10.280> important<01:04:10.960> and<01:04:11.160> gifted<01:04:12.560> um<01:04:13.800> probably

01:04:14.680 --> 01:04:17.520
the<01:04:14.880> most<01:04:15.080> important<01:04:15.400> Jewish<01:04:15.640> philosopher<01:04:16.120> and<01:04:16.360> legalist.

01:04:17.520 --> 01:04:26.480
Um,<01:04:18.800> like<01:04:19.200> many<01:04:19.600> rationalists,<01:04:20.680> because<01:04:20.880> Maimonides<01:04:21.520> was<01:04:21.840> a<01:04:21.960> thoroughgoing<01:04:22.600> rationalist<01:04:23.200> in<01:04:23.400> a<01:04:24.080> uh<01:04:24.120> not<01:04:24.400> in<01:04:24.520> a<01:04:24.560> in<01:04:24.760> a<01:04:24.800> medieval<01:04:25.360> age,<01:04:26.080> um

01:04:26.480 --> 01:04:34.040
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01:04:34.040 --> 01:04:36.000
So,<01:04:34.240> yes,<01:04:34.480> Maimonides<01:04:34.920> probably<01:04:35.200> did<01:04:35.440> believe<01:04:35.720> that.

01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:39.560
I<01:04:36.040> don't<01:04:36.200> think<01:04:36.320> he<01:04:36.360> had<01:04:36.520> any<01:04:36.760> evidence<01:04:38.000> to<01:04:38.200> actually<01:04:38.640> say<01:04:38.840> that<01:04:38.960> that<01:04:39.120> was<01:04:39.280> true.

01:04:39.560 --> 01:04:47.480
And<01:04:39.720> for<01:04:39.840> thousands<01:04:40.280> of<01:04:40.400> years,<01:04:40.600> it<01:04:40.720> does<01:04:40.840> not<01:04:41.080> seem<01:04:41.320> to<01:04:41.480> have<01:04:42.080> significantly<01:04:42.880> impaired<01:04:44.080> the<01:04:44.600> ability<01:04:45.080> of<01:04:45.640> Jews<01:04:46.120> to<01:04:46.280> reproduce<01:04:46.840> and<01:04:46.920> have<01:04:47.040> children.

01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:51.640
So,<01:04:48.400> I<01:04:48.560> would<01:04:48.720> say<01:04:48.960> if<01:04:49.120> somebody<01:04:49.440> came<01:04:49.680> to<01:04:49.800> me<01:04:49.880> and<01:04:50.000> said,<01:04:50.200> "Should<01:04:50.320> I<01:04:50.400> circumcise<01:04:50.880> my<01:04:51.000> child?"

01:04:51.640 --> 01:04:59.120
And<01:04:51.920> there's<01:04:52.160> not<01:04:52.360> a<01:04:52.400> religious<01:04:52.880> imperative<01:04:53.440> to<01:04:53.520> do<01:04:53.720> it,<01:04:54.760> I<01:04:54.960> would<01:04:55.080> say,<01:04:55.200> "Look,<01:04:55.360> the<01:04:55.480> World<01:04:55.720> Health<01:04:55.920> Organization<01:04:56.520> says<01:04:56.760> you<01:04:56.880> should,"<01:04:57.640> which<01:04:57.880> they<01:04:58.000> do,<01:04:58.720> "but<01:04:58.960> I'm

01:04:59.120 --> 01:05:04.120
not<01:04:59.280> going<01:04:59.400> to<01:04:59.480> tell<01:04:59.680> you<01:04:59.800> you<01:04:59.920> should<01:05:00.080> do<01:05:00.240> it."<01:05:00.600> But<01:05:00.720> as<01:05:00.840> a<01:05:00.880> religious<01:05:01.360> imperative<01:05:01.920> as<01:05:02.040> a<01:05:02.120> Jew,<01:05:02.360> I<01:05:02.440> think<01:05:02.600> it's<01:05:02.720> an<01:05:02.800> important<01:05:03.200> statement<01:05:03.600> to<01:05:03.680> make.

01:05:04.120 --> 01:05:09.640
I<01:05:04.240> saw<01:05:04.400> a<01:05:04.440> debate<01:05:04.800> once<01:05:05.280> between<01:05:05.600> Christopher<01:05:05.920> Hitchens<01:05:06.600> and<01:05:08.040> somebody<01:05:08.480> representing<01:05:08.960> the<01:05:09.040> Jewish<01:05:09.280> religion.

01:05:09.640 --> 01:05:16.880
I<01:05:09.840> can't<01:05:10.040> remember<01:05:10.240> who<01:05:10.400> it<01:05:10.520> was.<01:05:11.360> And<01:05:11.960> they're<01:05:12.080> talking<01:05:12.320> about<01:05:12.480> circumcision<01:05:13.360> and<01:05:14.880> his<01:05:15.040> opponent<01:05:15.440> makes<01:05:15.920> this<01:05:16.200> this<01:05:16.440> joke.

01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:25.480
He<01:05:17.000> says,<01:05:17.800> "Well,<01:05:18.120> you<01:05:18.200> know,<01:05:18.480> it<01:05:18.600> seems<01:05:18.960> perfectly<01:05:19.360> safe<01:05:19.680> and<01:05:19.800> fine<01:05:20.120> and<01:05:20.280> and<01:05:20.440> and<01:05:20.600> the<01:05:20.760> only<01:05:21.200> effect<01:05:22.400> that<01:05:22.560> it<01:05:22.720> seems<01:05:23.080> to<01:05:23.200> have<01:05:23.880> on<01:05:24.080> people<01:05:24.440> is<01:05:24.840> increasing<01:05:25.280> their

01:05:25.480 --> 01:05:28.160
statistical<01:05:26.000> probability<01:05:26.520> of<01:05:26.600> winning<01:05:26.800> a<01:05:26.840> Nobel<01:05:27.160> Prize."

01:05:28.160 --> 01:05:33.120
And<01:05:28.360> everyone<01:05:28.680> laughs<01:05:29.000> and<01:05:29.120> then<01:05:29.200> he<01:05:29.280> says,<01:05:29.480> "Oh,<01:05:29.520> you<01:05:29.600> know,<01:05:29.720> my<01:05:29.920> my<01:05:30.160> son<01:05:30.680> cried<01:05:31.040> more<01:05:31.160> at<01:05:31.200> his<01:05:31.320> first<01:05:31.560> haircut<01:05:31.960> than<01:05:32.080> he<01:05:32.160> did<01:05:32.320> at<01:05:32.360> his<01:05:32.520> bris,<01:05:32.920> right?"

01:05:33.120 --> 01:05:40.800
And<01:05:33.240> and<01:05:33.520> they're<01:05:33.600> sort<01:05:33.720> of<01:05:33.800> laughing<01:05:34.120> and<01:05:34.200> then<01:05:34.320> Hitchens<01:05:34.640> says,<01:05:35.480> "I<01:05:35.760> I<01:05:35.920> I<01:05:36.040> find<01:05:36.880> I<01:05:36.960> don't<01:05:37.160> find<01:05:38.160> the<01:05:38.280> compulsory<01:05:38.800> genital<01:05:39.160> mutilation<01:05:39.640> of<01:05:39.720> children<01:05:40.080> a<01:05:40.120> fit<01:05:40.360> subject

01:05:40.800 --> 01:05:46.440
for<01:05:40.880> humor<01:05:41.160> in<01:05:41.200> the<01:05:41.280> same<01:05:41.440> way<01:05:41.560> that<01:05:41.680> you<01:05:41.840> do.<01:05:42.040> I<01:05:42.080> mean,<01:05:42.640> imagine<01:05:42.960> if<01:05:43.120> I<01:05:43.200> were<01:05:43.280> to<01:05:43.400> say<01:05:43.560> right<01:05:43.800> now,<01:05:44.040> 'My<01:05:44.240> daughter<01:05:44.600> cried<01:05:44.880> more<01:05:45.080> at<01:05:45.160> her<01:05:45.240> first<01:05:45.480> haircut<01:05:45.960> than<01:05:46.120> she<01:05:46.240> did

01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:52.000
when<01:05:46.560> I<01:05:46.640> cut<01:05:46.920> off<01:05:47.040> her<01:05:47.160> clitoris.'<01:05:47.960> What<01:05:48.040> would<01:05:48.160> you<01:05:48.240> think<01:05:48.520> of<01:05:48.640> me<01:05:48.800> to<01:05:48.920> say<01:05:49.080> such<01:05:49.360> a<01:05:49.640> disgusting,<01:05:50.800> evil<01:05:51.240> thing?"

01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:54.040
And<01:05:52.120> then<01:05:52.200> he<01:05:52.360> said,<01:05:52.840> "And<01:05:52.960> you've<01:05:53.120> just<01:05:53.360> proved<01:05:53.600> my<01:05:53.760> point.

01:05:54.040 --> 01:05:59.360
You've<01:05:54.160> proved<01:05:54.400> my<01:05:54.520> point<01:05:54.840> that<01:05:55.440> that<01:05:55.520> religion<01:05:55.920> makes<01:05:56.400> morally<01:05:56.800> normal<01:05:57.200> people<01:05:57.680> do<01:05:57.920> and<01:05:58.040> say<01:05:58.400> wicked<01:05:58.720> and<01:05:58.840> evil<01:05:59.120> things.

01:05:59.360 --> 01:06:02.720
You've<01:05:59.480> just<01:05:59.680> proved<01:05:59.880> my<01:06:00.040> point."<01:06:00.320> And<01:06:00.400> the<01:06:00.520> audience<01:06:01.240> erupts<01:06:01.520> in<01:06:01.600> applause.

01:06:02.720 --> 01:06:12.000
What<01:06:02.800> do<01:06:02.840> you<01:06:02.920> make<01:06:03.080> of<01:06:03.160> that<01:06:03.280> exchange?<01:06:04.240> Um,<01:06:05.320> first<01:06:05.600> of<01:06:05.720> all,<01:06:06.320> I<01:06:06.440> think<01:06:06.880> that<01:06:07.360> that<01:06:08.000> that<01:06:08.960> to<01:06:09.040> call<01:06:09.400> circumcision<01:06:10.080> genital<01:06:10.520> mutilation,<01:06:11.560> like

01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:20.000
thousands<01:06:12.520> of<01:06:12.600> years<01:06:12.800> of<01:06:12.920> Jews<01:06:13.200> would<01:06:13.320> disagree<01:06:13.720> with<01:06:13.880> you<01:06:14.200> and<01:06:15.360> there<01:06:15.560> is<01:06:15.760> no<01:06:15.960> evidence<01:06:16.360> that<01:06:16.520> it<01:06:16.640> dulls<01:06:16.960> pleasure,<01:06:17.360> unlike<01:06:18.080> a<01:06:18.160> clitoridectomy,<01:06:18.880> which<01:06:19.080> Judaism<01:06:19.800> has

01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:29.800
never<01:06:20.320> practiced<01:06:20.800> and<01:06:20.920> doesn't<01:06:21.200> practice.<01:06:22.320> Um,<01:06:22.880> and<01:06:23.600> and<01:06:23.760> I<01:06:23.840> don't<01:06:24.640> and<01:06:24.800> I<01:06:24.880> think<01:06:25.360> that<01:06:25.840> while<01:06:26.160> it<01:06:26.280> is<01:06:26.480> true<01:06:26.920> that<01:06:27.280> any<01:06:27.720> ideology<01:06:29.440> um

01:06:29.800 --> 01:06:36.600
and<01:06:30.040> everybody<01:06:30.520> bears<01:06:30.840> ideologies,<01:06:31.480> not<01:06:31.640> just<01:06:31.840> religion,<01:06:32.280> any<01:06:32.560> ideology<01:06:33.120> can<01:06:33.280> make<01:06:33.480> people<01:06:33.800> do<01:06:34.000> things,<01:06:34.320> sometimes<01:06:34.760> bad<01:06:35.040> things<01:06:35.280> that<01:06:35.400> they<01:06:35.520> would<01:06:35.680> not<01:06:35.880> do<01:06:36.000> otherwise.

01:06:36.600 --> 01:06:42.560
I<01:06:36.680> mean,<01:06:37.440> when<01:06:37.600> I<01:06:37.680> had<01:06:37.880> this<01:06:38.040> debate<01:06:38.520> with<01:06:38.920> with<01:06:39.080> Hitchens,<01:06:39.440> I<01:06:39.520> would<01:06:39.680> always<01:06:39.960> say,<01:06:40.320> like,<01:06:40.720> "Marxism<01:06:41.280> hasn't<01:06:41.520> made<01:06:41.680> people<01:06:41.920> do<01:06:42.040> bad<01:06:42.280> things.

01:06:42.560 --> 01:06:47.240
Fascism<01:06:43.080> hasn't<01:06:43.280> made<01:06:43.440> people<01:06:43.680> do<01:06:43.800> bad<01:06:44.040> things.<01:06:44.360> Anything<01:06:44.800> that<01:06:44.920> someone<01:06:45.160> believes<01:06:45.560> deeply<01:06:46.240> can<01:06:46.360> make<01:06:46.520> you<01:06:46.640> do<01:06:46.760> bad<01:06:46.960> things."

01:06:47.240 --> 01:06:53.880
I<01:06:47.320> don't<01:06:47.560> think<01:06:47.720> circumcision<01:06:48.240> is<01:06:48.360> a<01:06:48.400> bad<01:06:48.640> thing.<01:06:49.400> And<01:06:49.720> I<01:06:49.800> think<01:06:50.400> the<01:06:50.560> vast<01:06:51.000> majority<01:06:51.560> of<01:06:51.680> adult<01:06:51.960> men<01:06:52.120> who've<01:06:52.240> been<01:06:52.360> circumcised<01:06:52.960> would<01:06:53.080> agree<01:06:53.320> with<01:06:53.480> me.

01:06:53.880 --> 01:06:56.520
You<01:06:53.920> can<01:06:54.000> understand<01:06:54.280> why<01:06:54.360> that<01:06:54.520> would<01:06:54.640> put<01:06:54.800> off<01:06:54.960> new<01:06:55.200> converts,<01:06:56.000> of<01:06:56.120> course.

01:06:56.520 --> 01:07:03.640
Of<01:06:56.560> course.<01:06:57.080> Absolutely.<01:06:57.840> Absolutely.<01:06:58.280> But<01:06:58.480> the<01:06:58.840> And<01:06:59.000> I<01:06:59.040> think,<01:06:59.280> by<01:06:59.400> the<01:06:59.480> way,<01:06:59.640> that<01:06:59.760> that's<01:07:00.920> I<01:07:00.960> don't<01:07:01.160> know<01:07:01.240> that<01:07:01.400> that's<01:07:01.600> by<01:07:01.760> design,<01:07:02.560> but<01:07:02.720> I<01:07:02.800> think<01:07:03.000> that<01:07:03.160> there<01:07:03.440> is

01:07:03.640 --> 01:07:08.600
something<01:07:04.160> to<01:07:04.400> that,<01:07:04.680> which<01:07:04.920> is<01:07:05.280> it<01:07:05.520> is<01:07:05.840> actually

01:07:08.600 --> 01:07:14.240
an<01:07:08.880> awesome<01:07:09.320> thing<01:07:09.560> in<01:07:09.680> the<01:07:09.760> traditional<01:07:10.360> meaning<01:07:10.640> of<01:07:10.800> awes-<01:07:11.080> that<01:07:11.280> is<01:07:11.440> full<01:07:11.640> of<01:07:11.800> awe<01:07:12.440> to<01:07:12.600> join<01:07:12.840> the<01:07:12.960> Jewish<01:07:13.240> people.

01:07:14.240 --> 01:07:17.080
We<01:07:14.400> have<01:07:14.560> not<01:07:14.840> had<01:07:15.120> an<01:07:15.240> easy<01:07:15.440> time<01:07:15.680> of<01:07:15.800> it<01:07:15.920> in<01:07:16.000> this<01:07:16.200> world.

01:07:17.080 --> 01:07:25.040
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01:07:25.040 --> 01:07:30.160
immeasurably<01:07:25.840> to<01:07:25.960> Jewish<01:07:26.280> life,<01:07:26.960> but<01:07:27.080> I<01:07:27.120> think<01:07:27.320> it<01:07:27.400> should<01:07:27.600> be<01:07:27.720> done<01:07:28.360> soberly<01:07:28.920> and<01:07:29.040> thoughtfully.

01:07:30.160 --> 01:07:34.240
I<01:07:30.240> must<01:07:30.560> ask<01:07:30.760> you<01:07:30.880> in<01:07:30.960> closing<01:07:31.480> about<01:07:31.720> Hitchens<01:07:32.400> and<01:07:33.040> the<01:07:33.160> debate<01:07:33.480> that<01:07:33.600> you<01:07:33.720> had.

01:07:34.240 --> 01:07:41.520
I<01:07:34.400> was<01:07:34.640> stuck<01:07:35.040> in<01:07:35.280> a<01:07:36.160> customs<01:07:36.760> queue<01:07:37.000> or<01:07:37.200> you<01:07:37.320> know<01:07:37.400> in<01:07:37.480> a<01:07:37.520> passport<01:07:37.880> control<01:07:38.200> queue<01:07:38.400> last<01:07:38.680> night<01:07:38.920> for<01:07:39.040> something<01:07:39.480> like<01:07:39.680> an<01:07:39.800> hour<01:07:39.960> and<01:07:40.040> a<01:07:40.080> half<01:07:40.440> and<01:07:40.520> so<01:07:40.640> I<01:07:40.720> managed<01:07:41.040> to<01:07:41.120> relisten

01:07:41.520 --> 01:07:43.440
to<01:07:41.640> at<01:07:41.760> least<01:07:41.960> half<01:07:42.160> of<01:07:42.240> that<01:07:42.400> debate<01:07:42.680> that<01:07:42.800> you<01:07:42.880> had<01:07:43.040> with<01:07:43.200> him.

01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:46.680
I<01:07:43.560> I'd<01:07:43.720> listened<01:07:43.920> to<01:07:44.000> it<01:07:44.120> years<01:07:44.320> ago.<01:07:44.600> I<01:07:44.760> was<01:07:44.920> a<01:07:44.960> big<01:07:45.280> Oh,<01:07:45.400> I<01:07:45.480> had<01:07:45.880> I<01:07:45.960> don't<01:07:46.120> know<01:07:46.200> which<01:07:46.400> one.

01:07:46.680 --> 01:07:49.120
There<01:07:46.800> were<01:07:46.920> like<01:07:47.080> five<01:07:47.320> or<01:07:47.400> six<01:07:47.640> of<01:07:47.760> Oh,<01:07:47.840> really?<01:07:48.280> Yes.

01:07:49.120 --> 01:07:52.320
One<01:07:49.560> of<01:07:49.640> them<01:07:49.760> by<01:07:49.880> the<01:07:49.960> way<01:07:50.120> was<01:07:50.680> on<01:07:50.880> the<01:07:51.040> afterlife.

01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:59.320
He<01:07:52.520> and<01:07:52.640> Sam<01:07:52.920> Harris<01:07:53.800> and<01:07:54.000> Brad<01:07:54.280> Artson<01:07:54.720> who's<01:07:54.920> another<01:07:55.200> rabbi<01:07:55.520> and<01:07:55.680> I<01:07:56.200> and<01:07:56.360> this<01:07:56.520> was<01:07:56.640> shortly<01:07:56.960> before<01:07:57.200> he<01:07:57.320> died<01:07:57.680> were<01:07:57.760> debating<01:07:58.160> whether<01:07:58.360> there<01:07:58.480> was<01:07:58.600> an<01:07:58.680> afterlife.

01:07:59.320 --> 01:08:06.480
Yeah.<01:07:59.800> I<01:07:59.840> I<01:08:00.160> I<01:08:01.160> I<01:08:01.240> feel<01:08:01.440> like<01:08:01.600> I've<01:08:01.680> seen<01:08:01.920> everything<01:08:02.320> that<01:08:02.520> Hitchens<01:08:02.920> has<01:08:03.280> ever<01:08:04.200> said<01:08:04.920> as<01:08:05.040> long<01:08:05.200> as<01:08:05.320> it's<01:08:05.440> on<01:08:05.560> YouTube<01:08:05.920> at<01:08:06.040> some<01:08:06.240> point.

01:08:06.480 --> 01:08:09.120
So<01:08:06.560> I've<01:08:06.640> probably<01:08:07.000> seen<01:08:07.200> that,<01:08:07.360> but<01:08:07.480> I'm<01:08:07.600> talking<01:08:07.880> about<01:08:08.040> there's<01:08:08.200> a<01:08:08.240> one-on-one<01:08:08.720> exchange.

01:08:09.120 --> 01:08:13.840
It's<01:08:09.200> the<01:08:09.280> one<01:08:09.440> where<01:08:09.560> he<01:08:09.680> has<01:08:09.800> that<01:08:09.960> line<01:08:10.120> about<01:08:10.360> free<01:08:10.600> will<01:08:11.560> and<01:08:11.800> and<01:08:12.600> and<01:08:13.200> gets<01:08:13.640> Right.

01:08:13.840 --> 01:08:17.359
That<01:08:13.960> was<01:08:14.120> in<01:08:14.240> Boston.<01:08:15.080> I<01:08:15.160> actually<01:08:15.520> thought<01:08:15.720> that<01:08:15.840> that<01:08:16.040> was<01:08:16.200> his<01:08:16.440> weakest.

01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:23.560
Yeah,<01:08:17.520> so<01:08:17.720> listening<01:08:18.080> to<01:08:18.160> it<01:08:18.240> back<01:08:18.440> I<01:08:18.480> was<01:08:18.600> going<01:08:18.759> to<01:08:18.839> say<01:08:19.080> like<01:08:19.319> it's<01:08:20.160> like<01:08:20.680> I<01:08:20.720> mean<01:08:20.880> famously<01:08:21.279> he's<01:08:21.440> got<01:08:21.560> this<01:08:21.680> sort<01:08:21.839> of<01:08:21.920> rhetorical<01:08:22.400> charm<01:08:22.720> and<01:08:22.799> he<01:08:22.839> makes<01:08:23.040> people<01:08:23.319> laugh,

01:08:23.560 --> 01:08:30.279
but<01:08:23.680> if<01:08:23.799> you<01:08:23.920> were<01:08:24.040> to<01:08:24.200> sort<01:08:24.400> of<01:08:24.920> I've<01:08:25.080> always<01:08:25.279> thought<01:08:25.440> with<01:08:25.560> a<01:08:25.600> lot<01:08:25.799> of<01:08:25.880> Hitchens<01:08:26.240> debates,<01:08:27.160> if<01:08:27.319> you<01:08:27.440> were<01:08:27.560> to<01:08:28.120> take<01:08:28.400> the<01:08:28.560> arguments<01:08:28.880> that<01:08:29.000> were<01:08:29.080> made<01:08:29.279> on<01:08:29.440> every<01:08:29.640> side

01:08:30.279 --> 01:08:35.520
and<01:08:30.480> you<01:08:30.600> had<01:08:30.720> to<01:08:30.880> write<01:08:31.120> them<01:08:31.319> out<01:08:31.640> in<01:08:31.799> sort<01:08:32.000> of<01:08:32.600> syllogistic<01:08:33.240> form<01:08:33.560> and<01:08:33.680> you<01:08:33.759> weren't<01:08:34.080> allowed<01:08:34.480> to<01:08:34.600> use<01:08:35.000> same<01:08:35.160> language.

01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:41.560
You<01:08:35.560> had<01:08:35.680> to<01:08:35.759> translate<01:08:36.200> it<01:08:36.240> into<01:08:36.400> your<01:08:36.520> own<01:08:36.640> words<01:08:36.920> and<01:08:37.040> write<01:08:37.240> the<01:08:37.319> arguments<01:08:37.680> side<01:08:38.000> by<01:08:38.160> side,<01:08:39.359> he'd<01:08:39.600> lose<01:08:39.839> a<01:08:39.880> lot<01:08:40.080> more<01:08:40.240> of<01:08:40.319> the<01:08:40.400> debates<01:08:40.880> than<01:08:40.960> people<01:08:41.240> think<01:08:41.400> that

01:08:41.560 --> 01:08:48.520
he<01:08:41.680> did.<01:08:41.920> I<01:08:42.040> I<01:08:42.120> wanted<01:08:43.279> what<01:08:43.560> was<01:08:43.720> your<01:08:45.200> sort<01:08:45.359> of<01:08:45.880> reaction<01:08:46.600> say<01:08:46.759> maybe<01:08:47.000> like<01:08:47.160> one<01:08:47.279> of<01:08:47.359> the<01:08:47.440> first<01:08:47.680> times<01:08:47.920> you<01:08:47.960> debated<01:08:48.359> him.

01:08:48.520 --> 01:08:54.480
You<01:08:48.600> must<01:08:48.759> have<01:08:48.880> sort<01:08:49.120> of<01:08:49.240> known<01:08:49.400> what<01:08:49.520> you<01:08:49.560> were<01:08:49.640> getting<01:08:49.839> yourself<01:08:50.200> in<01:08:50.359> for,<01:08:51.000> but<01:08:51.200> afterwards<01:08:52.600> you<01:08:52.880> sort<01:08:53.040> of<01:08:53.240> finish<01:08:53.640> up.

01:08:54.480 --> 01:09:01.640
What,<01:08:54.640> what's<01:08:54.799> running<01:08:55.000> through<01:08:55.160> your<01:08:55.240> head<01:08:55.359> about<01:08:55.560> how<01:08:55.680> it<01:08:55.799> went?<01:08:56.680> Um,<01:08:57.240> I<01:08:57.359> wrote<01:08:57.640> an...<01:08:57.839> I<01:08:57.960> wrote<01:08:58.279> a...<01:08:58.839> a<01:08:58.920> couple<01:08:59.200> of<01:08:59.279> obituaries<01:09:00.440> after<01:09:00.759> he<01:09:00.920> passed<01:09:01.200> away.

01:09:01.640 --> 01:09:08.319
I...<01:09:03.040> First<01:09:03.319> of<01:09:03.440> all,<01:09:04.520> it<01:09:04.680> was<01:09:04.880> in<01:09:05.000> some<01:09:05.200> ways<01:09:05.359> a<01:09:05.400> wonderful<01:09:05.839> experience<01:09:06.480> to<01:09:06.600> debate<01:09:06.880> him.

01:09:08.319 --> 01:09:17.040
Because<01:09:09.160> I...<01:09:09.640> as...<01:09:10.080> as<01:09:10.560> I'm<01:09:10.720> not...<01:09:11.120> I<01:09:11.200> was<01:09:11.400> not<01:09:11.640> immune<01:09:12.160> to<01:09:12.279> his<01:09:12.520> charm<01:09:12.960> and<01:09:13.080> to<01:09:13.200> his<01:09:13.400> humor<01:09:13.960> and...<01:09:14.600> and<01:09:14.960> offstage<01:09:16.880> we

01:09:17.040 --> 01:09:21.200
got<01:09:17.160> along<01:09:17.400> very<01:09:17.680> well.<01:09:18.120> I<01:09:18.200> mean,<01:09:18.359> we<01:09:18.440> got<01:09:18.560> along<01:09:18.960> well<01:09:19.240> on<01:09:19.400> stage,<01:09:19.640> too,<01:09:19.720> but<01:09:19.880> offstage<01:09:20.200> we<01:09:20.279> got<01:09:20.359> along<01:09:20.520> very<01:09:20.799> well.

01:09:21.200 --> 01:09:24.160
Um,<01:09:21.520> and<01:09:21.759> I<01:09:22.120> very<01:09:22.440> much<01:09:22.720> enjoyed<01:09:23.120> his<01:09:23.279> company.

01:09:24.160 --> 01:09:34.600
Uh,<01:09:25.120> but<01:09:25.279> I<01:09:25.359> did<01:09:26.160> on...<01:09:26.520> on<01:09:27.040> two<01:09:27.319> or<01:09:27.440> three<01:09:27.720> occasions<01:09:28.279> that<01:09:28.480> I<01:09:28.560> remember,<01:09:29.560> I<01:09:29.720> did<01:09:30.160> think<01:09:31.040> that<01:09:31.319> he<01:09:31.600> was,<01:09:33.359> um,

01:09:34.600 --> 01:09:42.720
I<01:09:34.720> don't<01:09:34.880> know<01:09:35.000> exactly<01:09:35.759> the<01:09:36.120> right<01:09:36.520> word,<01:09:37.040> but<01:09:37.279> he<01:09:37.600> was<01:09:38.319> using<01:09:39.839> his<01:09:40.400> charm<01:09:41.080> to<01:09:41.240> mask<01:09:41.640> the<01:09:41.759> fact<01:09:42.080> that<01:09:42.200> he<01:09:42.279> didn't<01:09:42.480> have<01:09:42.600> an

01:09:42.720 --> 01:09:49.720
argument.<01:09:43.720> Uh,<01:09:44.120> and...<01:09:44.560> and<01:09:44.799> one<01:09:45.000> was<01:09:45.120> clearly<01:09:45.480> on<01:09:45.600> free<01:09:45.839> will,<01:09:46.319> where<01:09:46.480> he<01:09:46.640> said<01:09:47.000> the<01:09:47.160> old<01:09:47.359> line<01:09:47.600> about,<01:09:47.880> "I<01:09:48.000> will<01:09:48.160> just<01:09:48.400> choose<01:09:48.680> to<01:09:48.799> have<01:09:48.960> free<01:09:49.160> will."

01:09:49.720 --> 01:09:56.320
But<01:09:49.980> that<01:09:50.240> doesn't<01:09:50.500> in<01:09:50.760> any<01:09:51.020> way<01:09:51.280> address<01:09:51.540> the<01:09:51.800> reality<01:09:52.060> that<01:09:52.320> I<01:09:52.580> think<01:09:52.840> without<01:09:53.100> God<01:09:53.360> there's<01:09:53.620> no<01:09:53.880> way<01:09:54.140> to<01:09:54.400> get...<01:09:54.660> I've<01:09:54.920> used<01:09:55.180> this<01:09:55.440> as<01:09:55.700> an<01:09:55.960> example.

01:09:56.320 --> 01:10:03.800
I've...<01:09:56.520> I<01:09:56.560> made<01:09:56.720> a<01:09:56.760> video<01:09:57.040> once<01:09:57.240> called<01:09:57.440> "The<01:09:57.520> Sophistry<01:09:58.000> of<01:09:58.080> Christopher<01:09:58.400> Hitchens,"<01:09:58.920> and<01:09:59.040> I<01:09:59.080> sort<01:09:59.280> of<01:09:59.360> did<01:09:59.520> it<01:09:59.640> because<01:10:00.480> Hitchens<01:10:00.840> is<01:10:01.000> so<01:10:02.240> well-liked<01:10:02.920> in...<01:10:03.080> in<01:10:03.280> the<01:10:03.360> community

01:10:03.800 --> 01:10:06.520
that<01:10:03.920> I<01:10:04.000> come<01:10:04.200> from,<01:10:04.360> of<01:10:04.480> sort<01:10:04.640> of<01:10:04.960> atheist<01:10:05.680> YouTube,<01:10:06.360> right?

01:10:06.520 --> 01:10:12.360
They...<01:10:06.640> they...<01:10:06.960> they<01:10:07.120> love<01:10:07.320> the<01:10:07.400> guy,<01:10:07.560> and<01:10:07.640> I<01:10:07.680> thought,<01:10:07.880> "Let's...<01:10:08.040> let's<01:10:08.680> find<01:10:09.080> three<01:10:09.280> or<01:10:09.360> four<01:10:09.520> examples<01:10:09.960> of<01:10:10.040> where<01:10:10.160> I<01:10:10.240> think,<01:10:11.080> you<01:10:11.160> know,<01:10:11.320> you...<01:10:11.520> you<01:10:11.600> got<01:10:11.720> to<01:10:11.760> pay<01:10:11.840> attention<01:10:12.160> here,"

01:10:12.360 --> 01:10:16.920
and...<01:10:13.040> and<01:10:13.120> you're<01:10:13.200> making<01:10:13.480> this<01:10:13.600> criticism,<01:10:14.000> look,<01:10:14.200> on<01:10:14.320> atheism,<01:10:15.640> I<01:10:15.840> mean,<01:10:16.000> do<01:10:16.120> you<01:10:16.240> believe<01:10:16.480> in<01:10:16.600> free<01:10:16.760> will?

01:10:16.920 --> 01:10:23.120
Where<01:10:17.080> can<01:10:17.200> free<01:10:17.400> will<01:10:17.600> come<01:10:17.880> from<01:10:18.160> if<01:10:18.280> you<01:10:18.320> don't<01:10:18.520> have...<01:10:18.640> And<01:10:18.800> he<01:10:18.920> says,<01:10:20.160> "Well,<01:10:20.520> I...<01:10:20.920> I<01:10:21.040> think<01:10:21.280> we<01:10:21.440> have<01:10:21.560> free<01:10:21.720> will<01:10:21.840> because<01:10:22.000> we<01:10:22.080> have<01:10:22.200> no<01:10:22.320> choice<01:10:22.560> but<01:10:22.760> to<01:10:22.840> have<01:10:23.000> it."

01:10:23.120 --> 01:10:29.320
And<01:10:23.240> everyone<01:10:23.640> laughs,<01:10:24.560> and<01:10:24.720> then<01:10:24.840> it's<01:10:24.960> sort<01:10:25.160> of<01:10:25.280> like,<01:10:25.720> you<01:10:25.800> know,<01:10:25.920> job<01:10:26.160> done,<01:10:26.640> as...<01:10:26.800> as<01:10:26.920> if<01:10:27.080> that<01:10:27.280> even<01:10:27.480> comes<01:10:27.800> close<01:10:28.240> to<01:10:28.360> answering<01:10:28.760> the<01:10:28.840> question.

01:10:29.320 --> 01:10:33.280
But<01:10:29.440> he<01:10:29.520> did<01:10:29.720> get<01:10:29.840> away<01:10:29.960> with<01:10:30.080> doing<01:10:30.280> that<01:10:30.400> quite<01:10:30.600> a<01:10:30.640> lot,<01:10:30.800> and<01:10:30.880> interestingly,<01:10:31.400> I<01:10:31.480> think<01:10:32.560> admits<01:10:33.000> it.

01:10:33.280 --> 01:10:39.440
I...<01:10:33.480> I<01:10:33.520> think<01:10:33.720> at<01:10:33.760> some<01:10:33.920> point<01:10:34.080> in<01:10:34.160> "Mortality"<01:10:34.680> he<01:10:34.840> writes,<01:10:35.240> you<01:10:35.320> know,<01:10:36.240> it's<01:10:36.640> sacrificing<01:10:37.200> the<01:10:37.280> point<01:10:37.560> for<01:10:37.640> the<01:10:37.720> sake<01:10:37.920> of<01:10:38.000> a<01:10:38.040> cheap<01:10:38.280> joke,<01:10:38.480> which,<01:10:38.720> you<01:10:38.840> know,<01:10:38.960> I'm<01:10:39.080> not<01:10:39.200> above

01:10:39.440 --> 01:10:43.080
doing.<01:10:40.120> He<01:10:40.280> sort<01:10:40.440> of<01:10:40.560> knew<01:10:40.880> that<01:10:41.840> that's<01:10:42.000> what<01:10:42.080> he<01:10:42.160> was<01:10:42.280> doing<01:10:42.520> some<01:10:42.640> of<01:10:42.720> the<01:10:42.800> time.

01:10:43.080 --> 01:10:51.240
So,<01:10:44.040> I<01:10:44.120> mean,<01:10:44.640> what<01:10:44.760> was<01:10:44.880> your<01:10:45.000> impression<01:10:45.400> of<01:10:45.480> his<01:10:46.280> sincerity<01:10:47.040> as<01:10:47.200> a<01:10:47.240> debater<01:10:47.720> given<01:10:48.040> his<01:10:48.200> proneness<01:10:48.640> to<01:10:48.720> do<01:10:48.840> that<01:10:49.000> kind<01:10:49.200> of...<01:10:49.280> So,<01:10:49.680> there...<01:10:50.280> there<01:10:50.400> was<01:10:50.600> a<01:10:50.640> degree<01:10:51.080> to

01:10:51.240 --> 01:10:58.360
which<01:10:51.600> I<01:10:51.680> think<01:10:52.160> Hitchens<01:10:52.560> was<01:10:52.760> born<01:10:53.560> sort<01:10:53.760> of<01:10:53.840> with<01:10:53.960> these<01:10:54.160> rhetorical<01:10:54.720> howitzers,<01:10:55.800> and<01:10:55.920> he<01:10:56.000> decided,<01:10:56.600> "Oh,<01:10:56.720> I'm<01:10:56.840> going<01:10:56.960> to<01:10:57.000> turn<01:10:57.240> it<01:10:57.360> on<01:10:57.480> this."

01:10:58.360 --> 01:11:02.920
And<01:10:58.440> then<01:10:58.560> he<01:10:58.680> just<01:10:58.920> did.<01:10:59.760> So,<01:11:00.520> I<01:11:00.640> think<01:11:00.880> he<01:11:01.000> had<01:11:01.160> a<01:11:01.240> genuine<01:11:01.760> anger<01:11:02.120> about<01:11:02.440> religion.

01:11:02.920 --> 01:11:09.880
I<01:11:02.960> mean,<01:11:03.160> look,<01:11:03.360> I<01:11:03.440> learned<01:11:04.160> actually<01:11:04.560> later<01:11:04.880> when<01:11:05.040> I<01:11:05.320> read<01:11:05.480> his<01:11:05.640> autobiography<01:11:06.280> that<01:11:06.480> his<01:11:07.080> mother<01:11:07.440> ran<01:11:07.600> away<01:11:07.760> with<01:11:07.920> a<01:11:07.960> priest<01:11:08.360> and<01:11:08.440> they<01:11:08.520> died<01:11:08.840> in<01:11:08.960> a<01:11:09.000> suicide<01:11:09.520> pact.

01:11:09.880 --> 01:11:18.720
That<01:11:10.080> could<01:11:10.200> turn<01:11:10.400> you<01:11:10.480> against<01:11:10.760> religion.<01:11:11.680> Um,<01:11:12.400> but...<01:11:12.920> uh...<01:11:13.120> but<01:11:13.280> I<01:11:13.360> don't<01:11:13.680> want<01:11:13.840> to<01:11:13.920> attribute<01:11:14.800> his...<01:11:16.120> his<01:11:16.480> anger<01:11:16.760> about<01:11:17.000> religion<01:11:17.440> to<01:11:17.560> psychological<01:11:18.240> factors,

01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:23.080
but<01:11:18.840> I'm<01:11:18.920> just<01:11:19.080> saying<01:11:19.280> like<01:11:19.400> his<01:11:19.560> ex-...<01:11:19.880> personal<01:11:20.200> experience<01:11:20.720> with<01:11:20.880> religion<01:11:21.200> was<01:11:21.360> also<01:11:22.000> not<01:11:22.320> good.

01:11:23.080 --> 01:11:31.600
Um,<01:11:24.160> and<01:11:25.320> so<01:11:25.720> I<01:11:25.840> thought...<01:11:26.440> um...<01:11:27.160> I<01:11:27.280> thought<01:11:27.520> that<01:11:28.600> to<01:11:28.720> some<01:11:29.040> extent<01:11:31.400> it

01:11:31.600 --> 01:11:37.000
was<01:11:31.880> for<01:11:32.040> him<01:11:32.560> always<01:11:33.560> a...<01:11:34.280> uh...<01:11:35.600> always<01:11:35.880> an<01:11:36.000> Oxford<01:11:36.400> debate.

01:11:37.000 --> 01:11:45.320
It<01:11:37.120> was<01:11:37.320> always<01:11:37.640> kind<01:11:37.840> of<01:11:37.960> a<01:11:38.000> field<01:11:38.320> of<01:11:38.440> play.<01:11:39.440> Um,<01:11:40.080> I<01:11:40.240> did<01:11:40.640> not<01:11:41.000> feel...<01:11:41.320> some<01:11:41.600> people<01:11:41.840> that<01:11:42.000> I've<01:11:42.120> debated<01:11:42.520> about<01:11:42.720> religion,<01:11:43.160> I<01:11:43.200> felt<01:11:43.440> like<01:11:43.600> they...<01:11:44.080> they<01:11:44.440> felt<01:11:44.800> their<01:11:44.960> soul

01:11:45.320 --> 01:11:48.480
was<01:11:45.560> at<01:11:45.680> stake.<01:11:46.760> Don't<01:11:47.280> feel<01:11:47.560> that<01:11:47.880> with<01:11:48.080> Hitchens.

01:11:48.480 --> 01:11:53.720
I<01:11:48.520> didn't<01:11:48.760> feel<01:11:49.000> that<01:11:49.200> way.<01:11:49.440> I...<01:11:49.720> I<01:11:49.840> thought<01:11:50.160> if...<01:11:50.560> if<01:11:50.720> he<01:11:50.800> had<01:11:50.920> lost<01:11:51.200> a<01:11:51.240> point,<01:11:51.520> he<01:11:51.640> would<01:11:51.760> just,<01:11:52.320> "Oh,<01:11:52.400> I<01:11:52.480> got<01:11:52.640> to<01:11:52.720> do<01:11:52.800> better<01:11:53.040> on<01:11:53.160> that<01:11:53.360> one."

01:11:53.720 --> 01:11:56.040
It's<01:11:54.000> like<01:11:54.120> he's...<01:11:54.240> he's<01:11:54.400> having<01:11:54.640> fun.<01:11:55.280> He<01:11:55.400> had<01:11:55.600> fun.

01:11:56.040 --> 01:12:01.720
It's...<01:11:56.240> it's<01:11:56.520> like<01:11:56.800> a<01:11:57.120> fun,<01:11:57.280> which<01:11:57.480> did<01:11:57.680> not<01:11:57.880> mean<01:11:58.000> he<01:11:58.120> was<01:11:58.240> insincere,<01:11:59.240> but<01:11:59.400> it<01:11:59.520> meant<01:12:00.040> that<01:12:00.920> he<01:12:01.080> had<01:12:01.280> fun.

01:12:01.720 --> 01:12:10.400
Um,<01:12:01.960> in<01:12:02.120> some<01:12:02.400> ways,<01:12:02.960> when<01:12:03.160> I<01:12:03.240> would<01:12:03.440> see,<01:12:03.720> for<01:12:03.880> example,<01:12:04.880> his<01:12:05.040> debates<01:12:05.520> on<01:12:05.720> Iraq,<01:12:06.920> there<01:12:07.040> was<01:12:07.240> more<01:12:07.880> fervor<01:12:09.280> in<01:12:09.480> that<01:12:10.080> even

01:12:10.400 --> 01:12:19.080
than<01:12:10.560> there<01:12:10.720> was<01:12:11.200> in<01:12:11.360> the<01:12:11.440> religious<01:12:11.840> debates.<01:12:12.880> Um,<01:12:13.560> and...<01:12:14.320> and<01:12:14.480> I<01:12:14.560> think<01:12:14.840> that<01:12:15.040> he...<01:12:15.800> uh...<01:12:16.600> as<01:12:16.840> long<01:12:17.240> as<01:12:17.400> the<01:12:17.520> person<01:12:17.960> he<01:12:18.080> was<01:12:18.320> arguing<01:12:18.800> with

01:12:19.080 --> 01:12:27.600
didn't<01:12:20.520> individually<01:12:21.560> annoy<01:12:22.480> or<01:12:23.000> irritate<01:12:23.640> him<01:12:23.960> or<01:12:24.120> say<01:12:24.280> something<01:12:24.600> he<01:12:24.720> thought<01:12:24.960> was<01:12:25.120> stupid,<01:12:26.480> then...<01:12:27.320> then

01:12:27.600 --> 01:12:35.760
he<01:12:27.720> was<01:12:27.880> mostly<01:12:28.160> having<01:12:28.400> fun.<01:12:29.200> You<01:12:29.320> had<01:12:29.480> a<01:12:29.560> 2-hour<01:12:30.080> long<01:12:30.640> limousine<01:12:31.240> ride<01:12:31.560> with<01:12:31.680> Christopher<01:12:32.040> Hitchens<01:12:33.000> once<01:12:33.520> between<01:12:34.080> debates,<01:12:34.800> where<01:12:34.960> because<01:12:35.280> you<01:12:35.360> were<01:12:35.440> talking

01:12:35.760 --> 01:12:40.360
about<01:12:36.040> religion<01:12:36.400> publicly,<01:12:36.880> he<01:12:37.040> said,<01:12:37.280> "We<01:12:37.400> can<01:12:37.520> talk<01:12:37.760> about<01:12:38.080> anything<01:12:38.840> except<01:12:39.480> religion."

01:12:40.360 --> 01:12:43.720
What<01:12:40.600> did<01:12:40.800> you<01:12:40.920> talk<01:12:41.160> to<01:12:41.240> Christopher<01:12:41.560> Hitchens<01:12:41.840> about<01:12:42.080> 2<01:12:42.280> hours<01:12:42.640> if<01:12:42.880> not<01:12:43.120> religion?

01:12:43.720 --> 01:12:47.560
So,<01:12:43.840> first<01:12:44.120> of<01:12:44.200> all,<01:12:44.320> we<01:12:44.400> talked<01:12:44.640> a<01:12:44.680> lot<01:12:44.880> about<01:12:45.120> Scotch.<01:12:45.720> He<01:12:45.880> talked<01:12:46.160> a<01:12:46.200> lot<01:12:46.360> about<01:12:46.600> Scotch.

01:12:47.560 --> 01:12:50.120
And<01:12:47.720> I<01:12:47.760> will<01:12:47.920> tell<01:12:48.160> you<01:12:48.280> that<01:12:48.560> Black<01:12:48.840> Label<01:12:49.160> is<01:12:49.240> the<01:12:49.360> perfect<01:12:49.720> blended.

01:12:50.120 --> 01:12:54.160
That's<01:12:50.360> what<01:12:50.480> he<01:12:50.560> told<01:12:50.840> me.<01:12:51.080> He<01:12:51.160> said,<01:12:51.320> "Blue<01:12:51.600> Label's<01:12:51.880> too<01:12:52.000> expensive,<01:12:52.520> and<01:12:52.640> Red<01:12:52.840> Label's<01:12:53.080> not<01:12:53.200> worth<01:12:53.400> drinking."

01:12:54.160 --> 01:12:58.840
Um,<01:12:54.960> and...<01:12:55.600> uh...<01:12:56.080> and<01:12:56.280> I<01:12:56.360> remember<01:12:56.880> also<01:12:57.200> something<01:12:57.720> else.

01:12:58.840 --> 01:13:04.040
We<01:12:58.920> talked<01:12:59.200> about<01:12:59.880> one<01:13:00.080> or<01:13:00.200> two<01:13:00.400> of<01:13:00.520> the<01:13:00.680> other<01:13:01.120> religious<01:13:01.960> figures<01:13:02.480> that<01:13:02.640> he<01:13:02.800> had<01:13:02.960> debated.

01:13:04.040 --> 01:13:08.480
Um,<01:13:04.960> the<01:13:05.040> ones<01:13:05.280> that<01:13:05.440> he<01:13:05.560> was<01:13:05.680> not...<01:13:06.280> that<01:13:06.440> he<01:13:06.560> did<01:13:06.720> not<01:13:07.480> have<01:13:07.680> respect<01:13:08.080> for.

01:13:08.480 --> 01:13:10.520
Now,<01:13:08.680> I<01:13:08.760> have<01:13:08.920> no<01:13:09.080> idea<01:13:09.240> what<01:13:09.320> he<01:13:09.400> said<01:13:09.560> about<01:13:09.760> me<01:13:09.880> behind<01:13:10.120> my<01:13:10.280> back.

01:13:10.520 --> 01:13:13.360
I'm<01:13:10.640> just<01:13:10.800> saying<01:13:11.280> that<01:13:11.400> I<01:13:11.480> know<01:13:11.600> what<01:13:11.720> he<01:13:11.800> said<01:13:11.960> about<01:13:12.160> other<01:13:12.320> people<01:13:12.520> behind<01:13:12.760> their<01:13:12.920> back.

01:13:13.360 --> 01:13:21.800
Yeah.<01:13:13.560> Um,<01:13:14.200> and...<01:13:14.960> uh...<01:13:15.080> and...<01:13:15.320> and<01:13:15.480> then<01:13:15.880> I...<01:13:16.480> I<01:13:16.640> pressed<01:13:17.040> him...<01:13:17.240> The<01:13:17.360> one<01:13:17.520> thing<01:13:17.640> that<01:13:17.760> I<01:13:17.800> will...<01:13:18.360> that<01:13:18.520> I<01:13:18.600> will<01:13:18.800> talk<01:13:19.080> about<01:13:19.320> that<01:13:19.480> I...<01:13:19.680> I<01:13:19.800> pressed<01:13:20.200> him<01:13:20.360> on...<01:13:20.640> on<01:13:20.880> Israel.

01:13:21.800 --> 01:13:31.120
Because<01:13:22.000> I<01:13:22.080> said,<01:13:22.280> "Look,<01:13:22.640> I<01:13:22.840> understand<01:13:24.240> that<01:13:24.360> you<01:13:24.480> were<01:13:24.600> very<01:13:25.720> anti-Israel<01:13:26.640> in<01:13:26.760> your<01:13:26.920> early...<01:13:27.080> But<01:13:27.320> now<01:13:27.640> that<01:13:27.800> you<01:13:27.920> have<01:13:28.080> seen<01:13:29.080> the<01:13:29.240> ideology<01:13:30.720> because

01:13:31.120 --> 01:13:38.800
this<01:13:31.320> was...<01:13:32.200> I<01:13:32.280> mean,<01:13:32.480> his...<01:13:32.800> his<01:13:33.840> anti-religious<01:13:34.640> stance<01:13:35.840> was<01:13:36.000> a<01:13:36.040> product,<01:13:36.360> like<01:13:36.520> Sam<01:13:36.720> Harris,<01:13:37.000> of<01:13:37.080> 9/11<01:13:37.640> in<01:13:37.720> the<01:13:37.840> aftermath.

01:13:38.800 --> 01:13:47.200
I<01:13:39.150> said,<01:13:39.499> "Now<01:13:39.849> that<01:13:40.198> you've<01:13:40.548> seen<01:13:40.897> the<01:13:41.247> anti...<01:13:41.597> um...<01:13:41.946> Western<01:13:42.296> ideology<01:13:42.645> of<01:13:42.995> jihadism,<01:13:43.344> how<01:13:43.694> do<01:13:44.043> you<01:13:44.393> feel<01:13:44.743> about<01:13:45.092> the<01:13:45.442> fact<01:13:45.791> that<01:13:46.141> that's<01:13:46.490> what<01:13:46.840> Israel

01:13:47.200 --> 01:13:55.920
actually<01:13:47.680> faces,<01:13:48.880> not<01:13:49.120> all<01:13:49.280> the<01:13:49.400> time<01:13:49.640> and<01:13:49.760> in...<01:13:50.000> in<01:13:50.160> every<01:13:50.520> instance,<01:13:50.960> but<01:13:51.720> as<01:13:51.880> a<01:13:51.960> general...<01:13:52.880> and...<01:13:53.680> and<01:13:53.800> he<01:13:53.960> said<01:13:54.320> to<01:13:54.440> me,<01:13:55.760> "I

01:13:55.920 --> 01:14:02.680
have<01:13:56.280> too<01:13:56.680> many<01:13:58.480> Palestinian<01:13:59.240> friends<01:14:00.080> to<01:14:00.200> revisit<01:14:00.760> that<01:14:01.240> issue."

01:14:02.680 --> 01:14:11.440
And<01:14:03.080> I<01:14:03.200> understood<01:14:03.720> him<01:14:03.880> to<01:14:04.040> say,<01:14:06.120> I...<01:14:06.360> And<01:14:06.560> I<01:14:06.640> mean,<01:14:06.920> I<01:14:07.000> know<01:14:07.200> this<01:14:07.600> for<01:14:07.960> like<01:14:08.600> the<01:14:08.720> most...<01:14:10.360> um...<01:14:11.280> in

01:14:11.440 --> 01:14:19.360
some<01:14:11.800> ways<01:14:13.160> I'm<01:14:13.240> not<01:14:13.480> referring<01:14:14.160> to...<01:14:14.680> to<01:14:14.920> that<01:14:15.240> statement<01:14:15.640> in<01:14:15.680> particular,<01:14:16.080> but<01:14:16.760> I<01:14:16.840> said<01:14:17.080> to<01:14:17.160> someone<01:14:17.400> the<01:14:17.480> other<01:14:17.640> day,<01:14:17.800> "The<01:14:17.920> most<01:14:18.200> morally<01:14:18.600> corrupting<01:14:19.040> thing<01:14:19.200> in<01:14:19.280> the

01:14:19.360 --> 01:14:27.160
world<01:14:19.600> is<01:14:19.720> friendship."<01:14:21.160> Like,<01:14:21.320> if<01:14:21.440> you're<01:14:21.600> in<01:14:21.720> government<01:14:22.840> and<01:14:22.960> you<01:14:23.080> have<01:14:23.280> friends,<01:14:24.840> it's<01:14:25.080> very...<01:14:25.480> I<01:14:25.560> saw<01:14:25.800> this<01:14:26.000> at<01:14:26.080> the<01:14:26.160> university,<01:14:26.800> too.

01:14:27.160 --> 01:14:35.200
There<01:14:27.280> were<01:14:27.400> people<01:14:27.680> who<01:14:27.880> took<01:14:28.160> stands<01:14:28.600> because<01:14:28.880> they<01:14:29.040> had<01:14:29.240> friends<01:14:30.240> on...<01:14:30.680> on...<01:14:31.280> in<01:14:31.440> the<01:14:31.560> university,<01:14:32.080> and<01:14:32.160> they<01:14:32.240> didn't<01:14:32.480> want<01:14:32.600> to<01:14:32.680> hurt<01:14:33.000> them<01:14:33.400> or<01:14:33.560> offend<01:14:34.080> them<01:14:34.600> or...<01:14:35.000> And<01:14:35.120> the

01:14:35.200 --> 01:14:38.120
same<01:14:35.440> thing<01:14:35.600> with<01:14:35.760> government,<01:14:36.280> and<01:14:36.400> the<01:14:36.480> same<01:14:36.720> thing<01:14:36.920> in<01:14:37.080> general<01:14:37.520> world.

01:14:38.120 --> 01:14:39.840
It's<01:14:38.280> like<01:14:38.520> insider<01:14:39.040> stock<01:14:39.360> trading.<01:14:39.560> Why<01:14:39.640> is<01:14:39.760> that?

01:14:39.840 --> 01:14:46.200
Because<01:14:40.000> you're<01:14:40.120> my<01:14:40.280> friend,<01:14:40.800> and<01:14:40.960> I<01:14:41.040> don't<01:14:41.320> want<01:14:41.520> to<01:14:41.600> not...<01:14:41.960> And<01:14:42.080> you<01:14:42.240> ask<01:14:42.560> me<01:14:42.920> what<01:14:43.120> stock,<01:14:43.480> and<01:14:43.600> I<01:14:43.640> don't<01:14:43.840> want<01:14:43.960> to<01:14:44.240> be<01:14:44.400> the<01:14:44.560> jerk<01:14:44.880> who...<01:14:45.000> who,<01:14:45.320> "I'm<01:14:45.440> sorry,<01:14:45.720> I<01:14:45.760> can't<01:14:46.000> tell

01:14:46.200 --> 01:14:50.120
you."<01:14:46.840> And<01:14:47.040> so,<01:14:48.560> I'm<01:14:48.680> not<01:14:48.880> saying<01:14:49.040> it<01:14:49.160> was<01:14:49.280> morally<01:14:49.800> corrupt.

01:14:50.120 --> 01:14:56.520
That's<01:14:50.280> too<01:14:50.440> strong<01:14:50.720> a<01:14:50.760> term,<01:14:51.040> but<01:14:51.200> I<01:14:51.320> understand<01:14:51.800> that<01:14:51.920> he<01:14:52.000> would<01:14:52.160> say,<01:14:52.320> "Look,<01:14:52.680> I<01:14:52.800> have<01:14:53.080> really<01:14:53.440> close<01:14:53.720> friends<01:14:54.000> who<01:14:54.080> have<01:14:54.160> really<01:14:54.400> suffered<01:14:55.360> as<01:14:55.520> Palestinians<01:14:56.280> under

01:14:56.520 --> 01:15:02.480
Israel,<01:14:56.840> and<01:14:56.960> I<01:14:57.080> can't...<01:14:57.640> I<01:14:57.800> cannot<01:14:58.360> be<01:14:58.480> seen<01:14:58.800> as<01:14:58.920> somebody<01:14:59.280> who<01:14:59.440> says,<01:15:00.440> 'You're...<01:15:00.880> They're<01:15:01.240> right<01:15:01.800> about<01:15:02.120> something.'

01:15:02.480 --> 01:15:07.440
I<01:15:02.560> just<01:15:02.800> can't<01:15:03.000> do<01:15:03.200> it."<01:15:03.800> And<01:15:04.040> I<01:15:04.360> completely<01:15:05.240> understand<01:15:06.000> and<01:15:06.200> respect<01:15:06.640> that.

01:15:07.440 --> 01:15:14.080
Um,<01:15:08.360> There<01:15:08.560> are<01:15:08.640> sometimes<01:15:09.160> in<01:15:09.280> life<01:15:09.520> when<01:15:09.640> you<01:15:09.760> have<01:15:09.960> to<01:15:10.080> go<01:15:10.200> against<01:15:10.640> it,<01:15:10.880> which<01:15:11.120> is<01:15:11.480> not<01:15:11.760> easy,<01:15:12.680> but<01:15:12.960> it's<01:15:13.160> very<01:15:13.440> hard.

01:15:14.080 --> 01:15:17.040
We<01:15:14.200> know<01:15:14.360> that<01:15:14.480> Christopher<01:15:14.800> Hitchens<01:15:15.840> loved<01:15:16.080> his<01:15:16.240> friends.

01:15:17.040 --> 01:15:23.960
That's<01:15:17.280> one...<01:15:17.720> It's<01:15:17.880> interesting.<01:15:18.360> I<01:15:18.400> mean,<01:15:18.520> that's<01:15:18.720> such<01:15:19.160> a...<01:15:20.800> a<01:15:20.920> powerful<01:15:21.440> way<01:15:21.560> of<01:15:21.640> putting<01:15:21.960> it,<01:15:22.080> that<01:15:22.160> friendship<01:15:22.520> is<01:15:22.600> the<01:15:22.680> most<01:15:22.880> morally<01:15:23.200> corrupting<01:15:23.640> thing<01:15:23.800> in<01:15:23.880> the

01:15:23.960 --> 01:15:25.840
world.<01:15:24.600> Wonderful.<01:15:25.240> But<01:15:25.360> that's<01:15:25.560> the<01:15:25.640> thing.

01:15:25.840 --> 01:15:29.920
I<01:15:25.880> mean,<01:15:26.000> people<01:15:26.280> see<01:15:26.680> friendship<01:15:27.200> as<01:15:28.000> one<01:15:28.160> of<01:15:28.280> the...<01:15:28.440> the<01:15:28.560> greatest<01:15:28.880> fruits<01:15:29.160> of<01:15:29.280> morality.

01:15:29.920 --> 01:15:37.960
I'm<01:15:30.040> sure<01:15:30.200> that<01:15:30.360> G.<01:15:30.640> E.<01:15:30.720> Moore,<01:15:31.280> the...<01:15:31.600> the<01:15:31.720> intuitionist,<01:15:32.800> the<01:15:33.360> critic<01:15:33.720> of<01:15:33.840> John<01:15:34.040> Stuart<01:15:34.280> Mill,<01:15:35.000> when<01:15:35.160> trying<01:15:35.600> to<01:15:35.760> land<01:15:36.360> on<01:15:36.640> what<01:15:36.760> are<01:15:36.840> some<01:15:37.000> examples<01:15:37.480> of<01:15:37.560> things<01:15:37.800> which

01:15:37.960 --> 01:15:43.440
you<01:15:38.040> can<01:15:38.160> just<01:15:38.320> intuitively<01:15:38.920> know<01:15:39.120> to<01:15:39.280> be<01:15:39.440> good<01:15:39.760> without<01:15:40.080> further<01:15:40.360> need<01:15:40.520> for<01:15:40.600> justification,<01:15:41.400> he...<01:15:41.600> he<01:15:41.840> chose<01:15:42.080> friendship<01:15:42.480> as<01:15:42.560> one<01:15:42.680> of<01:15:42.720> those<01:15:42.880> examples.

01:15:43.440 --> 01:15:51.440
I<01:15:43.726> think<01:15:44.013> that<01:15:44.299> he<01:15:44.586> was<01:15:44.872> right.<01:15:45.158> Mhm.<01:15:45.445> It<01:15:45.731> is<01:15:46.018> intuitively<01:15:46.304> good,<01:15:46.590> and<01:15:46.877> I<01:15:47.163> mean,<01:15:47.450> the<01:15:47.736> Talmud<01:15:48.022> says<01:15:48.309> "Havruta<01:15:48.595> o<01:15:48.882> mituta",<01:15:49.168> which<01:15:49.454> means<01:15:49.741> friendship<01:15:50.027> or<01:15:50.314> death,<01:15:50.600> literally.

01:15:51.440 --> 01:16:00.120
Wow.<01:15:51.960> So,<01:15:52.400> but<01:15:53.480> having<01:15:53.720> said<01:15:54.000> that,<01:15:55.080> if<01:15:55.200> you're<01:15:55.320> in<01:15:55.400> a<01:15:55.440> position<01:15:55.840> of<01:15:55.960> power,<01:15:57.160> the<01:15:57.400> people<01:15:58.480> that<01:15:58.800> gen-...<01:15:59.040> It's<01:15:59.240> not<01:15:59.520> generally

01:16:00.120 --> 01:16:04.520
the<01:16:00.240> people<01:16:00.480> that<01:16:00.600> you<01:16:00.680> don't<01:16:00.920> care<01:16:01.160> about<01:16:02.120> that<01:16:02.280> end<01:16:02.520> up<01:16:03.400> upending<01:16:03.920> you.

01:16:04.520 --> 01:16:13.280
It's<01:16:04.720> your<01:16:04.840> friends.<01:16:06.080> And...<01:16:06.480> and<01:16:06.680> so,<01:16:07.960> um...<01:16:08.840> it...<01:16:09.040> it's<01:16:09.400> like<01:16:09.680> any...<01:16:10.000> like<01:16:10.280> any<01:16:10.600> other<01:16:10.960> great...<01:16:12.760> um

01:16:13.280 --> 01:16:15.800
motive<01:16:13.680> force.<01:16:14.320> Friendship<01:16:14.760> is<01:16:14.880> a<01:16:15.040> force<01:16:15.320> multiplier.

01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:21.080
Like<01:16:15.960> religion.<01:16:16.600> Religion<01:16:17.000> is<01:16:17.120> a<01:16:17.200> force<01:16:17.480> multiplier,<01:16:18.080> which<01:16:18.240> means<01:16:18.400> it<01:16:18.520> can<01:16:18.640> do<01:16:18.800> great<01:16:19.200> good<01:16:19.360> in<01:16:19.480> the<01:16:19.560> world,<01:16:19.720> it<01:16:19.800> can<01:16:19.920> do<01:16:20.040> great<01:16:20.280> evil.

01:16:21.080 --> 01:16:29.360
And<01:16:21.320> friendship,<01:16:21.800> too.<01:16:22.440> With<01:16:22.640> friends,<01:16:23.000> you<01:16:23.080> can<01:16:23.280> do<01:16:23.440> great<01:16:23.840> good,<01:16:24.600> but<01:16:24.840> also<01:16:26.040> with<01:16:26.320> friends,<01:16:27.120> when...<01:16:27.520> when<01:16:28.240> one<01:16:28.560> or<01:16:28.680> another<01:16:29.040> of<01:16:29.120> them

01:16:29.360 --> 01:16:32.880
wants<01:16:29.560> you<01:16:29.680> to<01:16:29.760> do<01:16:29.880> something<01:16:30.200> you<01:16:30.360> ought<01:16:30.520> not<01:16:30.720> to<01:16:30.800> do,<01:16:30.960> it's<01:16:31.240> really<01:16:31.640> hard<01:16:32.000> to<01:16:32.080> say<01:16:32.280> no.

01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:41.000
I<01:16:32.960> mean,<01:16:34.400> our<01:16:34.720> crime<01:16:35.040> families<01:16:36.320> are,<01:16:37.000> you<01:16:37.120> know,<01:16:37.360> a<01:16:37.480> good<01:16:37.680> example<01:16:38.440> of<01:16:38.600> this<01:16:39.520> corrupting<01:16:39.960> force<01:16:40.240> of<01:16:40.320> friendship.

01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:45.240
Yeah,<01:16:41.120> friendship<01:16:41.560> poisons<01:16:41.960> everything,<01:16:42.440> right?<01:16:43.720> That<01:16:43.800> was<01:16:43.920> going<01:16:44.040> to<01:16:44.120> be<01:16:44.160> his<01:16:44.280> next<01:16:44.560> book.

01:16:45.240 --> 01:16:49.480
Um,<01:16:46.160> For<01:16:46.280> those<01:16:46.440> of<01:16:46.520> you<01:16:46.560> who<01:16:46.640> don't<01:16:46.800> know,<01:16:46.920> he<01:16:47.080> wrote<01:16:47.440> "Religion..."<01:16:48.200> That<01:16:48.360> was<01:16:48.560> Christopher's<01:16:49.080> book.

01:16:49.480 --> 01:16:52.400
Was<01:16:49.720> "Religion<01:16:50.120> is<01:16:50.240> not<01:16:50.480> great.<01:16:50.800> How<01:16:50.960> religion<01:16:51.360> poisons<01:16:51.840> everything."

01:16:52.400 --> 01:16:57.200
Which...<01:16:52.520> And<01:16:52.960> someone<01:16:53.360> once<01:16:53.560> in<01:16:53.680> front<01:16:53.920> of<01:16:54.000> me<01:16:54.240> called<01:16:54.560> him<01:16:54.680> Chris<01:16:55.000> and<01:16:55.120> he<01:16:55.240> said,<01:16:55.440> "Do<01:16:55.560> not<01:16:55.800> circumcise<01:16:56.400> my<01:16:56.520> name."

01:16:57.200 --> 01:17:00.240
So,<01:16:57.560> just<01:16:57.800> to<01:16:57.920> tie<01:16:58.240> everything<01:16:58.680> together<01:16:59.040> that<01:16:59.160> we<01:16:59.280> have<01:16:59.400> spoken<01:16:59.720> about.

01:17:00.240 --> 01:17:05.200
You<01:17:00.280> know,<01:17:00.360> that's<01:17:00.680> that<01:17:00.800> is<01:17:00.880> a<01:17:00.920> joke<01:17:01.200> that<01:17:01.400> I've<01:17:01.560> made<01:17:02.200> myself<01:17:03.240> without<01:17:03.720> realizing<01:17:04.160> he<01:17:04.280> got<01:17:04.440> there<01:17:04.880> first.

01:17:05.200 --> 01:17:10.560
It's<01:17:05.360> sort<01:17:05.480> of<01:17:05.560> when<01:17:05.680> it<01:17:05.760> comes<01:17:05.960> to<01:17:06.480> humor<01:17:07.000> in<01:17:07.160> religious<01:17:07.520> debates<01:17:07.960> as<01:17:08.080> an<01:17:08.240> atheist,<01:17:08.800> it's<01:17:08.960> sort<01:17:09.120> of<01:17:09.240> like<01:17:09.440> philosophers<01:17:09.960> and<01:17:10.040> Plato.

01:17:10.560 --> 01:17:13.080
You<01:17:10.680> think<01:17:10.920> you've<01:17:11.000> come<01:17:11.160> up<01:17:11.240> with<01:17:11.360> something,<01:17:11.680> but<01:17:11.800> Plato<01:17:12.160> thought<01:17:12.280> of<01:17:12.360> it<01:17:12.480> first.

01:17:13.080 --> 01:17:17.120
You<01:17:13.200> think<01:17:13.400> you've<01:17:13.480> got<01:17:13.600> a<01:17:13.680> funny<01:17:13.960> clip<01:17:14.200> about<01:17:14.440> religion,<01:17:15.080> Hitchens<01:17:15.400> probably<01:17:15.760> got<01:17:15.920> there<01:17:16.080> first<01:17:16.320> at<01:17:16.400> some<01:17:16.640> point.

01:17:17.120 --> 01:17:25.960
Uh,<01:17:17.320> and<01:17:17.480> also<01:17:17.840> I...<01:17:18.040> I<01:17:18.080> have<01:17:18.240> to<01:17:18.320> say,<01:17:18.800> I<01:17:18.920> mean,<01:17:19.200> in<01:17:19.360> terms<01:17:19.640> of<01:17:20.200> like<01:17:20.840> also...<01:17:21.800> um...<01:17:22.000> Sam<01:17:22.760> Harris<01:17:23.440> had<01:17:23.640> a<01:17:23.680> lot<01:17:23.920> of...<01:17:24.520> uh...<01:17:24.720> clever<01:17:25.680> turns

01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:29.200
of<01:17:26.080> phrase<01:17:26.440> and<01:17:26.560> so<01:17:26.800> on.<01:17:27.120> Um,<01:17:28.160> Dawkins<01:17:28.520> not<01:17:28.760> so<01:17:28.880> much.

01:17:29.200 --> 01:17:33.160
Dawkins<01:17:29.640> was<01:17:29.760> not...<01:17:30.040> humor<01:17:30.400> was<01:17:30.520> not<01:17:30.720> his...<01:17:31.440> uh...<01:17:31.680> He...<01:17:31.880> He<01:17:32.000> was<01:17:32.160> more<01:17:32.320> bludgeony.

01:17:33.160 --> 01:17:37.040
Yeah,<01:17:33.400> he<01:17:33.640> also<01:17:34.280> is<01:17:34.480> maybe<01:17:34.760> not<01:17:35.040> such<01:17:35.200> a<01:17:35.240> fan<01:17:35.400> of<01:17:35.480> small<01:17:35.720> talk.

01:17:37.040 --> 01:17:43.080
After...<01:17:37.520> after...<01:17:37.720> It's...<01:17:37.840> It's<01:17:38.040> interesting.<01:17:38.360> I<01:17:38.400> mean,<01:17:38.520> people<01:17:38.720> are<01:17:38.800> interested<01:17:39.280> almost<01:17:39.520> from<01:17:39.640> a...<01:17:40.080> from<01:17:40.240> a<01:17:40.280> gossipy<01:17:40.840> perspective<01:17:41.440> of,<01:17:41.640> you<01:17:41.720> know,<01:17:42.080> what's<01:17:42.240> it...<01:17:42.560> what's<01:17:42.760> it<01:17:42.880> like?

01:17:43.080 --> 01:17:45.320
What<01:17:43.160> are<01:17:43.240> they<01:17:43.320> really<01:17:43.560> like<01:17:43.760> off<01:17:43.920> stage?<01:17:44.400> This...<01:17:44.640> this<01:17:44.800> kind<01:17:45.000> of<01:17:45.080> thing.

01:17:45.320 --> 01:17:51.720
But<01:17:45.480> it<01:17:45.600> sounds<01:17:45.880> like<01:17:46.040> your<01:17:46.120> experiences<01:17:47.320> at<01:17:47.440> least<01:17:47.640> with<01:17:47.800> someone<01:17:48.000> like<01:17:48.080> Christopher<01:17:48.360> Hitchens<01:17:49.040> were<01:17:50.160> brought...<01:17:50.440> brought...<01:17:50.760> were...<01:17:50.920> they<01:17:51.120> were<01:17:51.280> wonderful.

01:17:51.720 --> 01:17:59.000
I<01:17:51.760> mean,<01:17:51.960> I...<01:17:52.160> First<01:17:52.400> of<01:17:52.480> all,<01:17:52.560> he<01:17:52.640> used<01:17:52.840> to<01:17:52.960> try<01:17:53.200> to<01:17:53.280> get<01:17:53.440> me<01:17:53.520> to<01:17:53.640> drink<01:17:54.000> before<01:17:54.400> our<01:17:54.480> debates<01:17:54.840> and<01:17:54.960> I'd<01:17:55.400> say<01:17:55.600> to<01:17:55.720> him,<01:17:56.120> you<01:17:56.200> know,<01:17:56.440> I'm...<01:17:57.240> I'm<01:17:57.480> not<01:17:57.720> so...<01:17:57.920> I<01:17:58.080> as<01:17:58.240> he<01:17:58.360> was<01:17:58.640> throwing

01:17:59.000 --> 01:18:01.800
back<01:17:59.240> one<01:17:59.360> Scotch<01:17:59.720> after<01:17:59.960> another,<01:18:00.480> "I'm<01:18:00.600> not<01:18:00.800> so<01:18:00.920> foolish<01:18:01.320> as<01:18:01.440> to<01:18:01.520> drink."

01:18:01.800 --> 01:18:05.480
And<01:18:01.880> he<01:18:01.960> would<01:18:02.160> say...<01:18:02.400> I<01:18:02.480> remember<01:18:02.800> he<01:18:02.920> said<01:18:03.120> to<01:18:03.200> me<01:18:03.280> in<01:18:03.360> Boston<01:18:03.800> before<01:18:04.080> that<01:18:04.200> debate<01:18:04.400> to<01:18:04.440> go,<01:18:04.800> "Just<01:18:05.000> have<01:18:05.120> some<01:18:05.280> beer.

01:18:05.480 --> 01:18:07.760
It's<01:18:05.640> like<01:18:05.800> water."<01:18:06.600> And<01:18:06.760> I<01:18:06.840> thought,<01:18:07.080> "Not<01:18:07.280> for<01:18:07.400> me.

01:18:07.760 --> 01:18:10.920
It's<01:18:07.960> actually<01:18:08.240> not<01:18:08.440> like<01:18:08.640> water<01:18:08.880> for<01:18:09.040> me.<01:18:09.560> It's<01:18:09.680> like<01:18:09.840> water<01:18:10.080> for<01:18:10.280> you."

01:18:10.920 --> 01:18:20.240
Um,<01:18:11.880> but...<01:18:12.680> uh...<01:18:12.760> but<01:18:12.920> if<01:18:13.000> you<01:18:13.120> want<01:18:13.280> to<01:18:13.360> know<01:18:13.600> what<01:18:13.800> Hitchens<01:18:14.160> was<01:18:14.320> like<01:18:14.600> at<01:18:14.720> his<01:18:14.920> most...<01:18:16.120> um...<01:18:17.280> Hitchensy...<01:18:18.640> uh...<01:18:20.120> I

01:18:20.240 --> 01:18:27.800
remember<01:18:20.720> he<01:18:20.880> would<01:18:21.040> never<01:18:21.360> come<01:18:21.560> early.<01:18:22.680> They<01:18:22.840> would<01:18:23.000> say,<01:18:23.440> you<01:18:23.560> know,<01:18:23.760> the<01:18:23.920> debate<01:18:24.240> would<01:18:24.360> be<01:18:24.560> at...<01:18:24.920> at<01:18:25.120> 6:00<01:18:25.480> and<01:18:25.560> they<01:18:25.680> would<01:18:25.800> say,<01:18:25.960> "We<01:18:26.120> want<01:18:26.320> you<01:18:26.360> there<01:18:26.480> by<01:18:26.600> 5:15."

01:18:27.800 --> 01:18:35.520
And<01:18:28.040> I,<01:18:28.160> of<01:18:28.280> course,<01:18:28.960> being<01:18:29.200> the<01:18:29.280> good<01:18:29.480> boy,<01:18:29.840> would<01:18:30.040> show<01:18:30.200> up<01:18:30.360> at<01:18:30.440> 5:15<01:18:31.120> and<01:18:31.240> he<01:18:31.360> would<01:18:31.480> never<01:18:31.720> come<01:18:31.880> early<01:18:32.040> 'cause<01:18:32.160> he<01:18:32.280> resented<01:18:33.280> having<01:18:33.520> to<01:18:33.640> stand<01:18:33.960> around<01:18:34.400> when<01:18:34.520> he<01:18:34.640> knew

01:18:35.520 --> 01:18:39.480
that<01:18:35.680> they<01:18:35.800> weren't<01:18:36.080> going<01:18:36.320> to<01:18:36.760> bring<01:18:36.920> him<01:18:37.120> up<01:18:37.240> on<01:18:37.360> stage<01:18:37.680> until<01:18:38.080> a<01:18:38.160> quarter<01:18:38.440> of<01:18:38.520> six.

01:18:39.480 --> 01:18:46.880
So,<01:18:40.680> I<01:18:40.720> was<01:18:40.840> standing<01:18:41.160> there<01:18:41.280> in<01:18:41.320> the<01:18:41.400> lobby<01:18:41.720> of<01:18:41.800> the<01:18:41.880> hotel<01:18:42.520> waiting,<01:18:42.840> waiting,<01:18:43.080> waiting,<01:18:43.320> waiting<01:18:43.680> at...<01:18:44.080> and<01:18:44.240> at<01:18:44.320> a<01:18:44.400> quarter<01:18:44.680> of<01:18:44.800> six,<01:18:45.720> he<01:18:45.880> shows<01:18:46.200> up<01:18:46.320> with<01:18:46.440> a<01:18:46.480> cigarette

01:18:46.880 --> 01:18:50.320
in<01:18:46.960> one<01:18:47.160> hand<01:18:47.520> and<01:18:47.640> a<01:18:47.680> glass<01:18:47.960> of<01:18:48.080> wine<01:18:48.320> in<01:18:48.400> the<01:18:48.520> other<01:18:48.720> and<01:18:48.800> says,<01:18:49.000> "Hello,<01:18:49.240> darling."

01:18:50.320 --> 01:18:55.920
And<01:18:50.440> that's<01:18:50.680> what<01:18:50.800> he<01:18:50.880> was<01:18:51.040> like.<01:18:51.480> And<01:18:51.640> it<01:18:51.760> was...<01:18:52.320> it<01:18:52.480> was<01:18:52.600> extremely<01:18:53.440> difficult<01:18:54.160> not<01:18:54.440> to<01:18:54.560> like<01:18:54.800> him.

01:18:55.920 --> 01:18:59.440
You<01:18:56.040> just<01:18:56.280> couldn't.<01:18:57.160> Well,<01:18:57.520> Rabbi<01:18:57.800> Wolpe,<01:18:58.040> thank<01:18:58.240> you<01:18:58.280> so<01:18:58.400> much<01:18:58.600> for...<01:18:58.840> for<01:18:58.960> your<01:18:59.080> time.

01:18:59.440 --> 01:19:01.800
I<01:18:59.480> think<01:18:59.680> we've...<01:18:59.840> we've<01:19:00.040> had<01:19:00.200> quite<01:19:00.400> a<01:19:00.480> broad-ranging<01:19:01.120> discussion<01:19:01.640> there.

01:19:01.800 --> 01:19:06.240
I'll<01:19:01.880> be<01:19:02.000> interested...<01:19:02.680> enjoyed<01:19:03.080> it.<01:19:03.160> Yeah.<01:19:03.280> Yeah.<01:19:03.400> Well,<01:19:03.560> I<01:19:03.600> hope<01:19:03.800> so<01:19:04.120> and<01:19:04.760> yeah,<01:19:04.960> we're<01:19:05.120> here<01:19:05.240> in<01:19:05.320> Atlanta<01:19:05.680> for<01:19:05.800> a<01:19:05.840> conference.

01:19:06.240 --> 01:19:09.280
I<01:19:06.280> know<01:19:06.400> you're<01:19:06.520> about<01:19:06.720> to<01:19:07.280> go<01:19:07.440> on<01:19:07.560> stage.<01:19:07.800> What...<01:19:07.920> what<01:19:08.000> are<01:19:08.080> you<01:19:08.120> talking<01:19:08.360> about<01:19:08.520> today?

01:19:09.280 --> 01:19:15.080
Uh,<01:19:09.680> the<01:19:09.760> crisis<01:19:10.200> of<01:19:10.320> liberalism<01:19:11.040> and<01:19:11.600> I'm<01:19:12.120> with<01:19:12.880> Ayaan<01:19:13.280> Hirsi<01:19:13.640> Ali,<01:19:13.920> which<01:19:14.080> will<01:19:14.160> be<01:19:14.280> very<01:19:14.560> interesting.

01:19:15.080 --> 01:19:20.280
Sounds<01:19:15.200> interesting.<01:19:15.400> Well,<01:19:15.520> I<01:19:15.560> hope<01:19:15.680> that<01:19:15.800> goes<01:19:15.960> well<01:19:16.120> for<01:19:16.240> you.<01:19:16.320> I'll<01:19:16.400> try<01:19:16.640> and...<01:19:16.880> try<01:19:17.000> and<01:19:17.080> catch<01:19:17.280> some<01:19:17.400> of<01:19:17.480> it<01:19:17.600> myself<01:19:18.040> if<01:19:18.160> I<01:19:18.240> can<01:19:18.520> and<01:19:19.280> yeah,<01:19:19.600> thanks<01:19:19.840> for...<01:19:20.040> thanks<01:19:20.200> for

01:19:20.280 --> 01:19:23.440
taking<01:19:20.440> the<01:19:20.520> time.<01:19:20.680> Sure.<01:19:21.280> Watch<01:19:21.400> more<01:19:21.520> videos<01:19:21.840> by<01:19:21.960> clicking<01:19:22.280> the<01:19:22.360> link<01:19:22.680> on<01:19:22.840> your<01:19:23.000> screen.

01:19:23.440 --> 01:19:28.760
Thanks<01:19:23.680> for<01:19:23.800> watching.<01:19:24.480> Subscribe<01:19:24.880> if<01:19:25.000> you<01:19:25.080> want<01:19:25.280> to<01:19:26.000> and<01:19:26.080> I'll<01:19:26.160> see<01:19:26.280> you<01:19:26.360> in<01:19:26.440> the<01:19:26.480> next<01:19:26.760> one.